Toban WIP

coops said:
im not a modder but maybe we need some1 like feels, isi or some1 just as good to do a conversion to see how simple or difficult it is to convert a track from rf1 to rf2. but the big problem is you have to find some1 who is willing to do this, they would probably have to give up on there own project to do so or some1 that has no projects going at the moment that has the skills and time.

ANY1 WILLING TO STICK THERE HAND UP AND DO IT ?????????????
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I started doing it with Nuerburg from rf1 for RnD and practice (but I never got around to finishing it because I'm too busy with work).

It's a matter of basically rebuilding the track and maybe the terrain, you can take a spline form the centre line and rebuild the track from there, it's always good to do some research and try and find accurate elevation data. For the terrain if its too low poly its best to rebuild it, you can conform it to the old terrain, but you want to add a bit of extra detail in for rf2, especially where the track meets the terrain and ripple strips etc. Then rebuild buildings and TSO's with more detail, change all the line markings to decals, replace the trees with a mix of 3d trees and billboard flat trees, also the spectators and marshals. Then make new textures and whilst your at it you mayaswell update the sponsor signage to the current year and add in an extra layer of AO to all objects. It's not that hard to do, but it cant be done in simed alone, it really needs to be done in 3dmax.

You could just add more detail into the existing track and terrain but in all due respect, it takes no time at all to rebuild it by 'tracing' over the existing terrain and it's a lot quicker than fiddling with the old low poly mesh trying to get things to fit in.
 
mianiak said:
This is a very touchy subject and it is something that can cause a lot of upset, but at the same time, it CAN benefit the community.
The biggest issue with conversions is the amount of effort put in by the converter, there are some major differences between rf1 and rf2, the main being the obvious, real road (including the more detailed road mesh). Other differences like animated marshals and billboarding trees, chroma transparency in a majority of cases replaces the 2 faced chroma/alpha mesh. Then there are the forgotten changes that really make the difference,,, textures. Larger textures with more detail, more refined shaders with blending, the ability for rf2 to process high poly objects. Each building should be no less than 1k tri's, TSO and simple props should contain much more detail than in the past. These are some of the things that make the difference between a nice rf2 track and a quick conversion.

BUT,,, at the same time a quick conversion is welcomed by the community because it gives them something different to play on, but,,, at the same time, these quick conversions upset modders who spend months to years scratch building tracks and in some cases can make them give up, what's the point of going to all the trouble to make something really nice when the community is easily satisfied with a simple rf1 conversion? :)

If people think ISI is slow at making content, then that just goes to show how much effort gets put into rf2 tracks.

So,,, this community needs to find a medium and has to stick together to support 2 things,,, 1, scratch built quality tracks. 2, well done quality conversions.

On that note, Vicent hasn't finished his conversion yet so we shouldn't judge it until its done and we should respect his effort and encourage him to do it well. There are plenty of talented artists in these forums and all should speak up if they see something that isn't right and help others do it well too.

Who knows, if someone can do a proper rf1 to rf2 conversion, ISI might even take interest in their work.
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It can never be done properly as it is not his right to do it in the first place.
It is an ethical issue. I spoke up because I saw something that isn't right. What I also see in this "community" are entitlement issues. "I want." "I want it now." "This is taking too long." "I'll just steal it from elsewhere." The end doesn't justify the means. No one ever stops to think whether they should. Because they can, they just do.

On top of that, what ISI does with Toban is up to ISI to decide. The artistic vision of two different people will never be identical. The only one that should decide what happens with the track is ISI. IDK what they have planned, but it will be worth the wait. If ISI wanted you to do work for them, I'm sure they would have contacted you by now.

What happened with Essington rings a bell. Someone did a quick and dirty patch to enable the alternate layouts and then we never officially got them.

Without first seeking the right to convert and work on, this project and others like it will always have the taint of abomination.
 
ahhh essignton, such good memories from this track!
My favorite amongst lienz festival from isi ^^
I hope to see them back soon!
 
Ethical questions aren't quite that black and white. The specifics matter an aweful lot. Not all unauthorized conversions are inherently bad. ISI has said somewhere that their content is free to use for non-commercial use within their sims, or at least that's the wisdom being spread around. I haven't checked if it mentions porting rF1 content to rF2, but why would that very specific outlier case be prohibited? I certainly can't see any taint on what happened here.

Did vicent-sollana even post a download link? If he did he must have edited out by now. So what are you arguing about Lord, a WIP thread with some screenshots and a video?
 
We wouldn't stop you converting from rF1 to rF2, as long as it is not used commercially.

EA owns the rights to products made by ISI before that, so don't go there.

However, we always reserve the right to release a newer version of tracks you already put the time into converting... So consider that before converting. No complaints about you 'wasting your time' doing it. :)
 
Thanks for the positive comments.

I had asked for permission and I know where I'm standing when it comes to the rights, I do not own anything. I am aware that ISI may someday realease their own version of Toban, and I'm sure it would be 100 times better. That doesn't mean that I don't want to try and make my own. As long as I ask for permission and do not make profit of that.

I'll try to do my best as an amateur that chose this circuit to learn to do it.
 
vicent-sollana said:
Thanks for the positive comments.

I had asked for permission and I know where I'm standing when it comes to the rights, I do not own anything. I am aware that ISI may someday realease their own version of Toban, and I'm sure it would be 100 times better. That doesn't mean that I don't want to try and make my own. As long as I ask for permission and do not make profit of that.

I'll try to do my best as an amateur that chose this circuit to learn to do it.
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Thats the spirit Vincent good job, once done you'll no doubt learn a lot from this conversion so that your next track is even better, practice makes perfect and all that! Keep up the good work, looking forward too it :)
 
If artist paints sunset, does his painting become worthless if another artists paints sunset?

Mods are views of the modder, even subject of mod would be same, there are different approaches and solutions, ISI Toban surely will have good points and I'm sure Vincent's Toban will have also it's good points. No wonder that we have only few modders if result have to be perfect or no point doing at all. I'll say do, explore, support and I know there will be more gold in future.

I really like from those trees, they have nice variation of color which looks much more natural than often seen single color with varying darkness, kind of makes them more alive, imo.
 
I would think a more applicable comparison is with photography or print making. You cannot print off copies of someone else's photo without permission. Nor can you take a photo of a photo and pass it off as your own. A copy of a Print of a famous painting is still infringement even if you acknowledge the original artist has rights. None the less most points I've raised earlier are now moot (certainly that was worth being insulted over). Vicent did the right thing by asking first. Well done. Most posts of this nature that is an afterthought.

The loop was opened by 3dsimed again, this appeared to be just the first of many smash and grab conversions. All of which should be exiled from the community even if it means we only have ISI content to race on.

ethone, you are right. There is no link, just a video of a basic track build converted to a new game. I suspect we are never going to agree about the black and white of ethics. (inserting joke here) I'm not into 50 shades of grey! (ends joke) Disclaimer: Somehow someone will try to apply that from me to you, making it an insult. That is not my intent, only applies to me.

If he's using it to learn that is great! That is how I learned the most. While looking at F3 models I've learned much, and pretty cars are probably wanted by all in the community, but never did I seriously think of releasing. We need more people willing to put in the time it takes to do it right around this community. I still think he'd still be better off starting from nothing and building something unique, even if the detail isn't up to rf standard, let alone rf2. I have more respect for BTB tracks and their builders then I do for things ripped out of other games. I think we need to police ourselves a bit more in that respect. It takes only one lawsuit to put us all at risk and collapse the entire community. Actually, the precedent may have already been set. Don't think that because you aren't accepting money that it isn't taking money out of someone else's pocket.

If we are a little artist's community that likes to make things to race on, that is more than enough. Let the conversions from other games stay in the back alley places of the internet. If it is well known that unauthorized conversions and stepping on the toes of the original creator are not acceptable practices in this community, then those things will stay elsewhere. We have the tools to create whatever we want, our own laziness is what prevents us from doing the right thing.
 
One thing I didn't like about the rF1 Toban was the splotchy looking grass. I'd like to see it made a little more consistent, but not homogenous. Closer to the amazing work Feels3 has done.

Nice start on it, though. It already looks miles better than more converts.
 
Ryno917 said:
One thing I didn't like about the rF1 Toban was the splotchy looking grass. I'd like to see it made a little more consistent, but not homogenous. Closer to the amazing work Feels3 has done.

Nice start on it, though. It already looks miles better than more converts.
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The Hudson Kerr textures for the rF1 Toban transformed the track visually. Hopefully Vincent plans something similar with his version. But Feels is the new benchmark these days IMO in terms of texture work on any sim, so i hope Feels work inspires others.
 
FONismo said:
The Hudson Kerr textures for the rF1 Toban transformed the track visually. Hopefully Vincent plans something similar with his version. But Feels is the new benchmark these days IMO in terms of texture work on any sim, so i hope Feels work inspires others.
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Ah, I completely forgot about Kerr. Magnificent work he did, for sure.
 
I have always had the sln texture update installed, but I also have all of kerr's work downloaded, what kind of difference would I notice between the 2?

By the way this toban looks absolutely just fine for now.

In terms of the actual physical properties like undulations, cambers, bumps, height and amount of teeth per curbs, track friction/grip etc is that automatically converted as well, or do you have to do that part yourself?
 
Spinelli said:
I have always had the sln texture update installed, but I also have all of kerr's work downloaded, what kind of difference would I notice between the 2?

By the way this toban looks absolutely just fine for now.

In terms of the actual physical properties like undulations, cambers, bumps, height and amount of teeth per curbs, track friction/grip etc is that automatically converted as well, or do you have to do that part yourself?
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I agree. This looks good to me, too. Geometry and physical properties like Spinelli mentions are what will really matter to me way more than visual polish.
 
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