G25/27 horrendous rattling

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mee, Jan 10, 2012.

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  1. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    1st time my Wife forcibly shut the door on me :(
    driving megane at mills.
    gone midnight so no more :rolleyes:

    Have day off so can test in peace rattle n roll :)
     
  2. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Hah, that might be what I already saw with G25 in nK Pro in some situations ;-)

    First of all, I can't test G25 in person at the moment but I hope I will do that within this week and report back.

    Ok, so here's the first thing:
    G25, by design, have something to prevent backlash: two tooth wheels slightly rotated to each other, so that there should be no rattle when you don't load FF motors constantly (because those two tooth wheels will always be touching small tooth wheels from FF motors). Unfortunatelly, having a chance to took apart over dozen or more G25, not all of them have that two black wheels actually rotated. For some G25 I had for repair, I had to turn those wheels by myself, because someone in Logitech factory forgot to do that :)
    Some of you might have that issue.
    Even if you don't, those two wheels are loaded by not so stiff springs so when stronger forces load them, that anti-backlash system won't be working anymore as should. That might be the case for you guys, even that system worked OK in other sims.

    As for G27 - because it use helical gears, there is no chance to have that anti-backlash system... and it doesn't have. I had G27 for myself for some time and even though it felt great overall, with better FF feeling, when I got myself over curbs of very uneven surfaces, I got sensations like with good ol' rattling Formula Force GP wheel ;)

    If I'm right, there should be no such issue on wheels like T500RS - belt driven, where there is no play between wheels teeth.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2012
  3. Fuzzi0n

    Fuzzi0n Registered

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    Must admit, I was worried the first time I went off the track and my wheel started shaking like crazy, little did I know it was actually going to stop working completely as a result. I usually fiddle around with FFB for a while, and I was running it lower than I normally would do to start with just to get a feel for things, somewhere around 0.6 ingame, 101% in the profiler and on the track it felt great until it died.

    I was driving the Megane around Mills, went off at quite high speed, wheel shook like crazy and as a result my G27 wouldn't centre and wouldn't calibrate. I did find a fix online for the issue, which involves tightening a screw on the sensor, which worked fine when I tried it in iRacing, went back into rFactor 2 with massively reduced FFB to make sure it didn't happen again, but of course the first time I touched the grass it did. Having owned that wheel for ~ 1.5 years and not had any issues until I went off the track in rFactor 2 means one of two things. The wheel was very close to death and rFactor 2 pushed it over the edge or the weird off track FFB is so bad that it was the only thing capable of braking the wheel.

    Wheel broken, and I've paid £30 for a beta that I now cant drive in because it broke the controller I was going to use. To say I'm unimpressed would be an understatement.

    If you've got a G27 and you've had it for a while like me, just go careful on it.
     
  4. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Member Staff Member

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    I can't enable FFB anymore. Seems like it's broke my wheel (G25)

    Doesn't get recognized in logitech profiler either.
     
  5. Frankalexandre

    Frankalexandre Registered

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    Changed the Steering torque filter="32" and reduced the multi ff to 0.2. Lost almost all the force-feedback but my G27 still vib like crazy when off track. It cant be correct. Impossible to play this way, i will not risk my wheel for a game. Cant believe beta testers didnt point this problem.
     
  6. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    I don't think I'll be playing more of the beta until this issue gets resolved.

    The noise/vibrations too unreasonable.
     
  7. sg333

    sg333 Registered

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    I'm quite concerned aswell. I wonder why this didnt get flagged in testing? The noise alone has stopped me testing.
     
  8. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Member Staff Member

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    Managed to get my FFB working again by installing latest drivers (had 5.01 opposed to 5.10), and unplugging and plugging both USB and Power Cables.

    Going to test carefully with some of the suggested settings. Can't afford a new wheel.

    Didn't think the FFB was particularly good in the first place, the feeling was too dense, as though there was a lot of clipping, meaning you miss out on a lot of the changes in the cars handling.
     
  9. rsr427

    rsr427 Registered

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    I love you guys and what you're all doing, you know its true b/c here I am shelling out $$$ on day one, but "Still a bit of rattle" is not good at this stage. I guess all the devs and closed testers aren't married or can game in their basement, but I had to kill it after two laps, the rumbling was disturbing my sleeping kids... :( Had this same problem with iRacing, one reason why they don't have my CC on file anymore.

    I guess the track and steering interaction is "technically correct" and "more realistic", but this is still something we do in homes at all hours, the quest for perfection should have its bounds.

    It would be fine if the steering force was strong enough, but it is not on my G25, so I would be disappointed if I have to crank down FFB. The steering feels great (what it is I feel), kind of like Raceroom, but they don't have the shaking...

    Thanks, Ryan
     
  10. AeroMechanical

    AeroMechanical Registered

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    I rather like the effect actually, though I have the gain in game set to 0.3 or 0.4 and usually prefer lower forces in sims in general. Initially I tried it with full settings, and it was definitely a mighty rattle, though nothing that would make me fear for my G27. They're pretty tough things, and I'd be surprised if it were capable of destroying itself. It has, by some margin, never been able to produce enough force to strip the gears and the rattle is probably easier on the motors than stalling the motors against a continuous large force as you would in a high speed turn in most sims. It really is quite loud though. Scared the hell out of my cat for sure.

    But I will say that the force of jolts is very large relative to the other forces. If the jolts are the overriding factor in how people are adjusting their FFB, that's definitely suboptimal.
     
  11. Maddmatt

    Maddmatt Registered

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    Now this post has me concerned :eek:
    Re-install drivers and try in another game, please check to see if your wheel really is dead. Because this could indicate a major problem.
    Could just be a faulty wheel. It would be a major f**k-up by Logitech if the wheel was capable of destroying itself.
     
  12. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    sharp bumps

    I have turned to the general FFB in profiler and in game and messed around , you can get it to the piont that the ffb works in the sense of car controle HOWEVER.

    unless you set the ingame ffb number to 0.12 or lower, if the car wheels go over a bump in the tarmak , tuch a rubble strip or go on the grass the wheel shakes as if you have it on 150% in profiler and run that demo the one that plays shouting sounds and shakes the wheel in a crazy way.

    Its as if that 1 specifc FFB force is magnified 200x over what it should be.
     
  13. brabham67

    brabham67 Registered

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    That was my thought as well.
     
  14. Fuzzi0n

    Fuzzi0n Registered

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    Tried all of that before I took it apart the first time, that fixed it until I went off the track in rFactor 2 again. Apparently people have that issue on new wheels, which is fine because they're in warranty, my one isn't and has been fine for ages.

    Not saying its rFactor 2's fault that it died, its just that the manic wheel shaking can't have helped much.
     
  15. SKeijmel

    SKeijmel Registered

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    omg how could they not have noticed before this open beta test next time give me a ticket in ;p
     
  16. Nodo

    Nodo Registered

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    G25
    Yes, I have the same problem
     
  17. marto

    marto Registered

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    i have same prob
    but still will need a plastic surgan to get the smile of my face.
     
  18. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    Ok I Have litraly gone through every setting to get it to the piont where I feel that it wont brake my g25 , Have people call police on me , shake the flesh of my bones. :)

    But the issue is that the piont at which the INSANE rumble is not felt is allso the piont at which you have lost all other FFB and feel from the game.

    So just to hilight the issue

    The specifc issue is only triggerd by the following , when the car touches rumble strip goes over a micro bump in the track , pot hole/gray patch , or goes on the grass.

    So there is some specific thing going on that im sure can be isolated and given an option to mute or reduce the effect it has on the FFB.

    In my opinoin The typ of bumps that trigger the insane rumble should if working properly feel like the general FFB vibrate noise you get in RBR as you go over small bumps.

    I speculate that more exspensive or cheeper belt driven wheels wont have this shake/rattle issue as the belt will autimaticaly dampen the vibration + due to the configeration of the moters they will be incapable of such vibration found with G25 , G27 . For users of belt driven wheels it will just feel like the fast tugging you see and get with real cars .

    If I am right This issue will only apply to Direc Drive wheels and they will need to have there own interprirtation of the Rumble/micro bump FFB.

    TLDNR .. Direct drive wheels like G25 G27 need a specific option to remove or reduce the specifc INSANE RUMBLE FFB
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2012
  19. marius

    marius Registered

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    Just bought the BETA and the I am enjoying the physics but hating the massive knocking in my G27. Yes my wife told me to shut the door but even I cant handle the massive rattle.

    Please fix soon so I can get some seat time in. Good work on the physics anyway.
     
  20. mc0676

    mc0676 Registered

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    I found the solution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
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