G25/27 horrendous rattling

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FilipV said:
FFB is great, but Logitech G27 is a big FAIL imo. We quickly need a fix or we have to buy another wheel. That annoying sound is also noticable on every other racing game: DIRT3, iracing, rfactor,...
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Had my G25 some years now, never rattled like this on any other game....
 
Important

I wanted to make this clear

There seems to be two seperate issues

1) In those last videos there is definetly some hardware issue going on that looks like the shaft/cog have dislodged and shake up and down from some FFB effects in games.

2) The Crazy Vibration in Rf2 is only found in Rf2 for me ( not i racing , NKP, RF1, LFS, ore GTR evo) , Crazy rumble can be achived in other games but only if I set the FFB stregth to 150 in the profiler and max in a given game , but the piont is if I have the profiler at 100% and game like i racing at a % that lets me get the full rezolutoin of FFB and what the car is doing then I am no where near the piont at which the wheel is braking itself and do not get anny crazy rumble.

The issue is not realy the noise its making but that the vibrate is totaly out of charactor and disrupts the normal FFB feel of the game ( its not a case of you are going over a bump so there is a vibrate or a sharp jolt ) its litraly you go over tiny bump in track or touch curb and the FFB goes up 200% and does crazy vibrate and multiple crazy jolts.

I would not be suprized that people with issue 1 have played games at very high ffb and this exasibates the hard ware issue and now the software issue with RF2 FFB is exsaserbating it and evan cusing the hard ware issue in wheels with people such as myself that often race with quite low FFB.

I would not be suprized if RF2 and this crazy FFB effect when going over bumps is actively braking wheels and maybe a warning should be put out.
 
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+1 Jameswesty!
However there seem to be poeple out there not having that problem. And most of them don't understand what problem we have :D someone should do a decent Video-Documentation of what the problem is.
When i get answers like "well...FFB is quite subjective" i know they don't understand our FFB problem right.
 
Scott Juliano said:
Well, if it helps here's what I'm using:

Steering torque filter="4"

In my G25 controller setting I have:

Degrees of Rotation: 900
Overall Effects Strength: 50
Spring Effect: 0
Damper Effect: 10
Centering spring is enabled and set to 80% (I like a bit of centering force)

Still a bit of a rattle, but quite acceptable for me. Your mileage may vary...
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Thanks Scott. It's drivable for me using these settings with the FFB x in game set to 0.80, the shake is reduced, but still there's the void of nothingness when on track.. Is it right that at the moment flat-spotting is just a visual effect? (Very nice it is too). But yes, with a G27.. It's never shaken like that before in its life.
 
same problem here... i wont play the game till a fix come out...
its ridicolous and its a good trick to get the wheel broken :(:(
 
This is the first time I could get on the forums since giving the beta a go last night, and on my CSR Elite, I'm having the exact same problem: way too strong jolts relative to overall FFB. Dropping FFB Mult down to about 0.5 makes it more manageable, but as other have pointed out, kills the overall FFB quality (obviously). Having a way to individually modulate the FFB effects is really needed. One of the devs pointed out earlier that there are no 'separate effects' in the FFB, that it's all 'real', which is very cool, for sure, but still, the sim needs to be driveable. :)
 
Kev Higgins said:
Thanks Scott. It's drivable for me using these settings with the FFB x in game set to 0.80, the shake is reduced, but still there's the void of nothingness when on track.. Is it right that at the moment flat-spotting is just a visual effect? (Very nice it is too). But yes, with a G27.. It's never shaken like that before in its life.
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Strangely having centering spring on seems to reduce the crazy vibrate issue to an acceptable level. However you allso lose all FFB Rezolution and the game feels worse than RF1, Rf2 ,LFS , I racing , NKp , GTRevo ,RBR. In general realistic sims are not designed to be played with centering spring , centering spring is only realy apropreat to be used with games that dont support proper FFB and only have basic rumble suport.

So far every "fix" is only a Fix in the sense that it deprives the game of FFB in general and then has the knock on effect of removing/reducing the Crazy vibrate.

I asume ISI staff know about this issue and are probably working on a fix I have spent 4 or so hours going through every concevable option and edditing the .ini files to no avail , only thing to do now is waite for a fix.
 
Jameswesty, I'm glad you posted that (2 separate issues), I was going to say exactly the same thing. I was / am experiencing I believe a similar thing to yourself, a break-your-thumbs / tear-wheel-outta-your-hands kind of jolting and vibrating. Even on tar before climbing curbs or going off-track.

I found reducing the FFB multiplier had a calming effect, but I'm not sure at what expense to FFB in terms of resolution or latency. I assume the FFB multiplier is simply a FFB strength setting? My wheel also no longer moves left and right continuously while stationary. I'm gonna try the other stuff as well.
 
Scott Juliano said:
Well, if it helps here's what I'm using:

Steering torque filter="4"

In my G25 controller setting I have:

Degrees of Rotation: 900
Overall Effects Strength: 50
Spring Effect: 0
Damper Effect: 10
Centering spring is enabled and set to 80% (I like a bit of centering force)

Still a bit of a rattle, but quite acceptable for me. Your mileage may vary...
Click to expand...

I will not change this settings. I am quite sure the problem is on the "grass" itself. I say so because when thru curbs the effects is pretty good and on road as well. If I change any of this controller settings I will be messing with this on road too and this is not the point.

ISI, please correct if I am wrong but the holes in the grass needs to be fixed... And remember to stay on track!
 
RafBR said:
I will not change this settings. I am quite sure the problem is on the "grass" itself. I say so because when thru curbs the effects is pretty good and on road as well. If I change any of this controller settings I will be messing with this on road too and this is not the point.

ISI, please correct if I am wrong but the holes in the grass needs to be fixed... And remember to stay on track!
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We can soften up the grass some, yes. However some people find the noise on the curbs unacceptable, so increasing the steering torque filter can help that...
 
Scott Juliano said:
so increasing the steering torque filter can help that...
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I have changed my mind, the grass bumps are good. The problem must be wheel driver or something...it is only the rumble if you go slow off the track the feeling is nice.
 
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Same issue here,

I think that its got to do with the ffb in te centre of the wheel.

In rFactor the G27 has a lack of ffb when the wheel is centred during a drive. because of this there is almost no noise from the wheel

Maybe there is a way to to set a little dead-zone for the ffb in the centre of the wheel ?

This might be a solution ?
 
LesiU said:
Hah, that might be what I already saw with G25 in nK Pro in some situations ;-)

First of all, I can't test G25 in person at the moment but I hope I will do that within this week and report back.

Ok, so here's the first thing:
G25, by design, have something to prevent backlash: two tooth wheels slightly rotated to each other, so that there should be no rattle when you don't load FF motors constantly (because those two tooth wheels will always be touching small tooth wheels from FF motors). Unfortunatelly, having a chance to took apart over dozen or more G25, not all of them have that two black wheels actually rotated. For some G25 I had for repair, I had to turn those wheels by myself, because someone in Logitech factory forgot to do that :)
Some of you might have that issue.
Even if you don't, those two wheels are loaded by not so stiff springs so when stronger forces load them, that anti-backlash system won't be working anymore as should. That might be the case for you guys, even that system worked OK in other sims.

As for G27 - because it use helical gears, there is no chance to have that anti-backlash system... and it doesn't have. I had G27 for myself for some time and even though it felt great overall, with better FF feeling, when I got myself over curbs of very uneven surfaces, I got sensations like with good ol' rattling Formula Force GP wheel ;)

If I'm right, there should be no such issue on wheels like T500RS - belt driven, where there is no play between wheels teeth.
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I finally got my hands on rF 2 beta and yes, like I was expecting, the issue is non-existant with T500RS (and other belt-driven wheels, I presume). Yes, FF forces generated when driving off road are relatively strong and feels like going over lots of sharp rocks, but that's all.
 
I also find terribly annoying and noise with G27 when off the track!
It just feels my wheel is going to break..
Hope to see some more detailed FFB options implemented in the game like environmental effects or something so we can reduce the ffb strength of the grass and gravel.
 
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