Why is the Skip Barber so difficult if it's supposed to be a noob car?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by momoracer, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Even though the Skippy in rF2 and the Formula Vee in AMS are challenging cars to drive, they remain the most appreciated in my years of Sim-Racing. Master these cars and driving everything else becomes considerably easier to the point where you may find yourself seeking out the tricky ones. Both the Skippy and Formula Vee get the most wheel-time and I try to drive them at least once a week. They are my go-to cars for testing changes to my controllers also.

    The wheel being used can be a factor in how we perceive grip / grip-loss as well but, as always, it's relative to what one is used to. The more detailed the information by which to judge the limit of control, the better defined that becomes and balancing on a razors edge becomes one's favorite past time. :)
     
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  2. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Never really understood this thing about the Skippie being a fantastic trainer that once mastered one can go and conquer the world.
    To me it's nothing but another racecar.
    And every racecar I "get into" I try to listen to to understand how it likes to be driven to go fast because no two are exactly the same, especially when chasing tenths.
    I can only understand this as the Skip Barber having some very pronounced characteristics in how it responds to weight transfer that it helps people practice skills they should already posess by instinct.
    If one cannot understand how to make a car go fast unless they do some time in the Skippie first then they aren't gonna get anywhere.
    It's a fun little car but no one needs to drive it to master the art of fast driving.
     
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  3. krusti

    krusti Registered

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    Nope but as you said is a good tool useful to learn how weight transfer works, i see a lot of people going slow and spin because they can't manage it (weight transfer), or they even don't know what is it.
     
  4. fullsus

    fullsus Registered

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    Before I buy rF2 I played Race07 , GTR2 2 years. buy AC play 3 months. Then buy rF2 lifetime .
    First I drive skip , C6.R with my 2 years experience with another sim .The Result I can't drive these car, car spin every corner I don't know why. I can't believe that .
    I search how to drive car properly from real life and book. Stick that car 1 month (play about 1 hour/day) .It's get better I can control car on the track. When I spin,I try to find exactly why I spin and how to correct that.

    Very fun and challenge to me.

    The very impressive to me is the Historic car I think these car worth and very fun to drive.
    Now I owned rF2 1 year . I feel I'm still new with this sim when I drive Historic car. These car teach me every time when I drive them.

    ============================

    Above is my post from year 2015.
    I have alos ask question how to drive here.: https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/trail-braking-why-i-spin.47335/#post-787569

    It has very useful informative from all people in this topic.
    ===================

    If skip2000 is too hard may be you try USF2000. It's similar but have more room for wrong driving input than skip200.
     
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  5. Karei

    Karei Registered

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    The Vee tought me how to drive and win! It is really a humbling experience to say yourself: "I'm crap and slow and I have inherited bad habits. Let's start from scratch and try to keep this car straight." Most simracers don't actually know the basics of weight transfer and straight line braking: the Vee (and the rF2 Skippy, but I prefer the Vee to be honest) will teach them.
     
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  6. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    I've just bought a new wheel, and I'm having to re-learn EVERYTHING I knew before. DFGT to a T300 is a massive difference, particularly with the better (stiffer) brake pedal and now having 1:1 steering instead of guessing how far I need to turn the wheel.

    I'll jump in the Skip tonight and work my way back to F1. Or is there a good Formula Ford mod available?
     
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  7. SlowMike

    SlowMike Registered

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    After Daytona675 recommended that I try the Vee instead of AMS's Forumula Trainer, I ran a few laps in it last night for the first time since briefly trying it when I first bought the game a couple of weeks ago. It definitely keeps me honest on clutch and engine management, but I found it more forgiving in the weight transfer aspect compared to either the Skippy or the Formula Trainer. Both of them broke my habit of stomping on the accelerator while coming out of a slow turn. My most frequent mistake with both is understeer that sends me straight into the grass or barriers.

    At this point I get the greatest satisfaction out of running a dozen or so consecutive clean laps in the Skippy.
     
  8. Lumin0u

    Lumin0u Registered

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    looks like rF2 with real life graphics mod (jump to 4:10)
     
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  9. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    There is one.
     
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  10. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Like others have said, when I first drove rF2 I was a bit taken back as to how hard it was to handle the cars (especially race cars). I was spinning a lot and unable to control over-steer etc. Now going back and driving those same cars such as the Corvette GT2, I wonder what drug I was on because it just seems so easy now. Even the Historics become somewhat easy with enough practice.

    But IMO there are two vehicles for which this is not the case, the Skippy, and especially the karts. I always feel when revisiting the Skippy that it is a little TOO hard to drive. Like, if you put a beginner in that car IRL they would be killed, instantly. I think the tyres just need a touch more grip - maybe if they were brought up to the latest standards it would become more drive able (don't get me wrong I still love driving the thing for the challenge).

    As far as the karts go, yes it is true that IRL you need to be very smooth to be fast in a kart, and if you lift off mid corner you can swap ends instantly etc. I just think in the sim it is a little too exaggerated- you're either under-steering very badly or snap oversteering. I have done a few fast laps in the Kart after probably dozens of hours of practice, and it felt good and I understand and appreciate them now, but I think the level of smoothness required to be fast is a bit too extreme. Needless to say, this is my opinion only and with real ffb and G forces (etc, etc...)
     
  11. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Karts in RF2 are nothing like the real thing.
    And real (racing) karts do not snap-oversteer off throttle, they just shed speed and tighten their line.
    They drive like formulas without wings and in slippery conditions they can be driven same way we abuse physics in RF2, on throttle and brake only, no steering input required.
    In fact, should anyone ever doubt if the extreme driving techniques used by some fast drivers are realistic (such as in WFG) , you can look into karts to find out they indeed are and that these physics apply to real life.
    RF2 karts may be fun ( I guess- I can't bring myself to drive them) but when their physics were put in place, guys either mixed up their data with something else or they did it late night at a bar.
    Also drove AMS karts recently, better than RF2 but still a million miles away from the real thing.
     
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  12. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    I was disappointed to not be able to slide the karts through corners like you see the kids do in the national championships.
     
  13. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    i think the physics are there on most cars just they need to update the tyre models to rectify the found mistake/error that was noticed. This will give more stability when reaching slip (especially at speed), or at least more margin for correction. Not like some of the old cars where theres just no play once reached the edge of adhesion.
     
  14. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    There's probably someone on here that could sort it. It wouldn't be a quick and easy fix, though.
     
  15. ECAR_Tracks

    ECAR_Tracks Registered

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    There's no simulator engine able to mimic karts dynamics. Unfortunately.
     
  16. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Yeah, I didn't know if RF2 has anything to do with the chassis and solid axle flexing of karts.
    I am sure that the handling can be replicated but even if they managed that, there would be no real-like chassis tuning of any kind.
     
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  17. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    Not sure what you mean by this, but I'm pretty sure the rf2 karts have a flexing chassis don't they?
     
  18. 3NPV5IRR

    3NPV5IRR Registered

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    As far as I know, it is critical to correctly transfer the weight of driver's body when driving the kart ensuring maximum load of relevant wheels. This could'n be correctly simulated with rim neither with pedals. However I still believe this could be possible with the use of some telemetry devices on your body, like VR helmet for example.
     
  19. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    When they released the karts, they said they implemented a system to simulate body movements, or so I remember.
     
  20. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I think kart drivers try to lean to the outside of the corner in order t to take weight off the inside wheel helping the kart turn (seeing as karts have locked rear wheels). Seat positioning fore and aft can have a big impact on handling also.They also bob their head down on the straight to reduce wind resistance.
     

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