Why is the Skip Barber so difficult if it's supposed to be a noob car?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by momoracer, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Wall of text incoming, you have been warned:rolleyes:
    Don't know.
    RF2 has chassis flexing but chassis flexing in karts acts both as suspension and as a cornering aid by lifting the inside rear wheel.
    Also karts have a solid rear axle the diameter of which is critical because it also flexes, you can use a different diameter rear axle but also tighten it down or loosen it up through the chassis mounts.
    Just to give you an idea I had my seat break once so I took it to a shop where they build and repair light boats because they work with fiberglass.
    I specifically asked them to apply the fiber glass lightly so the seat doesn't loose it's flexibility.
    After getting my seat back my performance in the kart was abysmal.
    I jumped into an exact same kart of a fellow racer and it felt like I got out of a formula and into a Mercedes, it would ride over curbs where mine would crash into them transferring the shock through my spine.
    All because those guys just threw some fiberglass on the seat without caring how much, tightening up the whole chassis.
    In the end, after convincing the team it was not in my head, we loosened the seat mounting wheels so the seat would move around with some freedom.
    Normally you wouldn't do that because this movement will eat into the fiber glass and eventually destroy the seat but there was no choice pre race.
    I went out like this and took pole.
    So then we knew for sure what had gone down.

    As for body weight transfer is used in rainy conditions where killing understeer is critical.
    In the dry you want to maintain posture.
    Sure enough at the end of long straights in high performance karts and in high profile championships drivers will lean forward to reduce resistance.
    Also , if the kart has only rear brakes then pulling the body back on the brakes improves performance because you want as much weight as possible over the rear wheels, the only ones slowing you down.
    Generally though in the dry you do not use your body weight, you just make sure that the seat is perfectly placed for the center of gravity per the manufacturer's recommendations and track conditions.

    Fun fact: One can easily understand that the most efficient way to slow down is to have the weight transfer to the braking wheels, so when you only have rear brakes and overall weight shifts forward during braking it's not ideal.
    But a kart has more than 60% of the weight at the back and those super fat tires at the rear.
    So imagine what it would be like if you were braking backwards instead.
    I had the chance to find out once when after spinning I found myself rolling backwards so I rode on the brake.
    The kart didn't decelerate, it got literally pinned down!
     
    green serpent and pkelly like this.
  2. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Riding a motorbike, but in a car.
     
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  3. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    In karts you lean you head down a bit even to counteract acceleration, once I tried a racing kart, and was not advised about the head,at the beginning of each straight as I pushed on the throttle I immediately saw only the sky and not the track, I just made 3 laps, and my neck was sore for some time after..
     
  4. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Karts have solid rear axle and the weight distribution and special steering try to provoke to lift the inner rear wheel in order to turn without sliding in the rear.

    The body weight distribution component is difficult to model in a racing sim since there is no input for it.
    I wonder if VR can be used as a new input depending on what you do with your head.

    For the steering I understand that is a much simpler thing since it is already necessary to accurately simulate it in order to calculate a precise FFB.

    However I don't know how it works in rF2 or if it has been properly correlated in the sim.

    The easy part is that a kart is affordable and it should be easier for a sim racing developer to properly gather data without depending on manufacturers and limitations for testing.

    Buy a kart for @Michael Borda and let him monitor it with sensors. You'll get the best kart sim in the market.
     
  5. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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  6. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Its hard to find kart setups but there are some out there
     
  7. green serpent

    green serpent Registered

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    I know that from changing the rear bar from horizontal to vertical IRL made a huge difference and made the kart seem undrivable at some tracks. I didn't realize adding a bit of fiber glass to the seat would do a similar thing! I guess karts are one of those things that seem very simple but are actually quite complex. It still makes me wonder though, if flex in a kart chassis is so important to the handling of the kart, than rf2 karts should be head and shoulders above the rest cos at least they attempt to simulate this.
     

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