Why is the Skip Barber so difficult if it's supposed to be a noob car?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by momoracer, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    With the exception of the gearbox, I find that the track "Dallas Karting Complex", whose "road" is very wide, is particularly good for training on this car.

    In addition, the car is more easily controllable for novices on this track because of the lower speed than on a traditional circuit (generally the high speed amplifies the oversteer of a car, except if there is the appropriate aerodynamics).

    I recommend this track if you want to train with the Vee !!
     
  2. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Good 'ol ISI hardcore default setup.
    They never put any water into their wine did they, gotta love those guys and their passion, that's how this sim was born in the first place.
     
  3. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    Wait, what do you mean *I* have to put some effort in to set the car up for a track? Someone has to do it for me!

    [Jokes. Obvs...]
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Putting effort to handle the car at high speeds also sounds like asking much. Damn, I only want to press pedals and move that circular object left and right...

    (joke too)
     
  5. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    It's like full start up procedures in Falcon BMS and X-Plane. Tedious, but if you want the full experience, it's gotta be done.
     
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  6. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Mmmmm startup procedures in flight sims. Good stuff. :)
     
  7. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    15 to 18 minutes ... to cold start the Viper. Good old times. Now I don't have so much time, DCS autostart is a good friend. :D
     
  8. Coutie

    Coutie Moderator

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    There's the national(I think that's the name) class that has the slick tires, and it's a lot better to drive.
     
  9. Magus

    Magus Registered

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    Yes absolutely, the National version (set in Tuning) is still a handful but once the tyres warm up (& track rubbers) you will be surprised how much it will stick. I love the national version of this car. It is what made me fall in love with rF2 nearly a decade ago.

    You drive it so carefully and with SO much focus, and as you progress you get more and more confident with it.

    I think this car alone got me invested in racing games with both time & money (latter as I upgraded from my G25). I would take it to Mid Ohio and the amount of time I spent with it in (private) practice sessions. I went from not being able to do a clean lap to doing one clean lap, then being more consistent, then faster to finally being able to race with a grid of 12 or so. This was pretty much my journey of how sim racing came to be a hobby for me.

    I also really enjoyed the FVee, especially on 1st release. I had a similar experience with that but with the Skip it took me months to take it from a clean lap to race worthy, with the Vee it all happened in one day.

    Both GREAT cars and I wish someone would just give the Skip a well deserved graphical update, new driver model & helmet view (for VR), & some new skins (leaving the tyres and physics as is). It taught me sim racing and it will go down as one of my favourite cars ever.
     
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  10. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Oh yeah, that's something to mention too because how are people supposed to know that the two versions of the car are not just different liveries but also different tires.
    And one is stickier than the other.
    I mean I didn't know that either until practice for a race when I and and a bunch of others had to ask the driver at the top of the timesheets how can he be 1.5 secs a lap faster than the rest of us hotshots:rolleyes:
     
  11. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    If you find Vee difficult, but don't have problems with Skipbarber, it might be because of the Vee's slower steering. If you drop the steering angle in Vee to 410 degrees for example, it feels more similar to skipbarber. That makes it easier to control the oversteer.
     
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  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I am the opposite, I find it easier to drive VEE with slower steering, larger steering lock. Because I am too slow and not precise enough for faster steering with that car :D
     
  13. softslider

    softslider Registered

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    I agree. When Vee was introduced initially, I had some trouble to control it whereas I've felt natural at controlling Skip Barber(but not so fast guy :p). For testing purpose, I tried lower the steering angle range like 900 to 540~720 and I felt much better.

    Going back to original 900, as soon as I tried fast counter steering and returning on purpose(it doesn't work all the time as you may guess), it works better. And I recognized it needs early timing and/or fast steering manipulation than skippy.

    As you know Reiza updated its steering angle as 720 soon and I'm satisfying with current Vee setup. Neverthless I think Vee is a little bit more sensitive than skippy.
     
  14. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Yep. it's possible to over come the slower steering with fast hands and fast reactions.
    Even with similar steering lock (and speed of the steering) Vee is still a bit more unpredictable than skippy.
    mantasisg Maybe it's your fast hands and reactions that you need to compensate with the slower steering :)
     
  15. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I would be very interested that a person who has already driven this car makes us a comparison reiza pack Fvee vs real life.
     
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  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I'm ok with my reactions, though I don't think they are really very fast or so. Perhaps it is more about style. With more steering degrees I found myself being able to correct slides more smoothly, as with faster steering I found myself often getting tankslapers, and just not being smooth. Anyway it is indeed interesting how this can be different for us with Vee car.
     
  17. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    It might be about getting used to it. I jumped to Vee (with 410 deg lock) after session with Skipbarber so i had already got used to fast steering. After getting used to slower steering it probably takes some time to adjust the rate of inputs to fit the faster steering.
     
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  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's been said many times before, but here it is again: a game isn't real life. A real driver who isn't into games will struggle to drive a sim because many of the real life cues (car movement, G forces) are missing. I would suggest people who have driven a real FVee, with similar specs to that in the game, will have opinions ranging from "perfect" to "absolute rubbish" if they try the rF2 version.

    You've made it clear you only like to drive cars you feel are realistic. I doubt it would matter if a real driver came in here and said the FVee drives like the real one; it still won't feel 'right' to you. We see this same thing over and over, people tend to have an opinion (whether it's related to car behaviour, FOV, moon landings) and rarely change those opinions no matter what evidence or arguments are presented.

    This thread has I think shown enough opinions and enough videos to indicate the game's renditions of the Skip and the FVee are close enough to reality to be good enough. Leynad has helpfully posted some setups above to help with the learning curve.
     
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  19. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    If a real Fvee driver says here that driving is very realistic, by explaining precisely why, there is no reason I do not believe it.

    But as I said, if I have sufficient reason to doubt the realism of a car in rF2 (with the standard set up), I do not see the interest (from my point of view) of spend time.

    I can not be sure of the realism of any cars in rF2, but I can make the choice, that few people make, to use content that can more likely be qualified as "very realistic" and in particular "the most realistic sims open to the general public ".

    Doing so is the only way to have a simulation that is as close as possible to a simulation like rFactor PRO, even if it is obviously far (my goal).

    To return to the Fvee, whether realistic or not (standard set up), the FVEE rF2 gives me the image of a race car very bad and inefficient.
     
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  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Drivers are not always good at understanding vehicle dynamics and so... So I may not count on them so much. But of course the word from them is always welcome and interesting, especially if they can put out some interesting and valuable thoughts. In some cases they will just simply say that it is nice, or they will complain. Just like you do now.

    There was one real life fvee driver writing about these things in Reiza DLC thread. He was not happy about handling too. But he was not aware that his australian series has different specs than brasilian series. Renato later explained the very same thing plus added excellent video where brasilian driver shows the nuances of fvee handling. This was also repeated in this thread. Moreover, there is older video from Neils Heusinkveld where he explains why vee is the way it is.

    To sum things up I think there is a reason why word "ignorance" is derived from the word "ignore". Go back driving your GT3 and other modern high downforce cars with massive tires and all perfect all around specs that you don't need as much skill as ability to keep up with the car capabilities :D
     
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