Skip2000: I try trail braking method read from book"Speed secrets". Braking while turn in to Apex.To use most of tire potential as shown in the traction circle graph. Skip2000 shown that this method work very well. See the result in Replay mode with traction circle graph close to the circle compare to graph that breaking finished before turn in. This car can simulate the same result as shown in the book!! Very impressive. Question: If I release brake pedal too quickly, Car will spin oversteer. When release brake very quickly weight shift to the rear, car should be understeer. Why the car oversteer instead of understeer? (I don't use left foot braking. When I trail braking ,input 0% throttle all time from turn in to apex.) Video of my drive at Portugal 1.43 below Turn 1: ease off break too quickly cause small oversteer . Turn 2: ease off break faster than turn 1 cause huge oversteer end up with spin. Thank you for your answer.
Post a screenshot of telemetry? throttle, brake, rpm, speed, g loading at the very least. No one is going to be able to give answers worth anything without data.
Only do that when braking in a straight line. When trail braking through the first third of a turn, only use very little brake, just enough to balance the car. It takes practice and remember what the book says biggest mistake of beginners "too fast too soon".
At Portugal Turn 1: ease off break too quickly cause small oversteer . Turn 2: ease off break faster than turn 1 cause huge oversteer end up with spin.
From the ISI Skip Barber Formula 2000 car page: "It is very important to keep the throttle down while turning, as this will keep the rear suspension loaded and the car more stable. Weight transfer is also critical, and any changes to throttle input on entry or mid-way through a turn, which will shift the weight away from the rear and cause “lift off oversteer”, will often lead to a spin. " see here, under technique: http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/skip-barber-2000/ One thought on this, but I don't know: When releasing the brake the weight gets away from the front tires but not necessarily all to the rear tires. Its probably more 'neutral' at that point. In this case, with keeping the initial balance of the car in mind, oversteer makes sense. To get enough weight on the rear tires I guess you would have to use the throttle, as stated above. (Hope its clear what I mean )
The oversteer at 12seconds was caused by no throttle. You should have throttle on at that point. Anticipate. Same with the oversteer at 22 seconds some throttle there and maybe a touch of countersteer would not have had you in that situation. Plus be more gentle with the brake in that turn. I will say though again though, anticipation is very important for a race car driver. His inputs and corrections will be much less when he can anticipate what the car will do. I can post a lap here at portugal if you wish to show you a bit about the car. It won't be a fast lap because, I'm not fast but maybe it will give you a better idea of what I'm saying.
i wouldn't worry about learning to trail brake the Skippy at this point. Seems like you should focus on learning to drive it with throttle around corners because that is how the skippy likes to be driven. The trail braking proportion of corners with the skippy is one of the least amounts of any car i've driven in rf2 and even though you need to incorporate it into the final driving to be as fast as possible, it's really something to train on towards the very end. If i were in your position, i would focus my attention on braking in a straight line and getting the speed down just enough so that you can control the balance (i.e. oversteer/understeer behaviour and thereby steer less with the steering wheel and more) with the throttle around the corner. This way you'll learn to feel the right amount of throttle to keep the rear planted but a little squirmy to steer the car around the corner. Too little throttle and the car will just continuously oversteer on you and too much throttle and it won't turn but just understeer. The skippy really teaches/trains you to drive with the throttle around corners. By teaching you to steer with the throttle, you learn ability to keep the front steering wheels as straight as possible which further increases your speed by reducing front tyre scrubbing/friction. It's really an all in one learning package. But to perfect this, you need a reference base to know that each time you attempt a corner again you can tell whether you've done it better or worse. And to do that you first need to master consistent driving/racing lines that are second nature in skill, i.e. by habit. If you focus on mastering the fundamental technique, the rest will naturally fall into place. I have the speed secrets book, i would also recommend getting "Skip Barber: Going Faster" as i think it's a little better book to start from. They also have a video that surmises the core concepts from the book but the book is still well worth getting. About a month following the advice in the above video and book and focusing on the driving techniques in the order they prescribed, i was able to improve from driving like in your video to this... (p.s. sorry there's no telemetry, was back in 2012 before the replay telemetry overlay existed in rf2) ...and there is absolutely no reason why you or anyone else can't improve that quickly as well. I cannot stress enough though, you need to focus all your attention and energy on the basics first. Make driving perfectly consistent racing lines around a track your entire world until driving those lines becomes subconscious programming. If you're racing online, ignore others that are faster than you at the moment and do not get allured into mindlessly racing them which will unfocus your mind from the task at hand and undo your learning. If you don't, each time you try to analyses/reflect on your performance in a corner, you may end up mistaking poor braking/exit/balance-control with simply having poor and inconsistent racing line technique. If you do not have a consistent frame of reference to build upon, it will make your learning curve exponentially more difficult and time consuming. In fact, without a consistent racing line technique, you won't have any means of accurately analysing your advanced car control technique (when you come to it) because the purpose of more advanced car control techniques is to be able to drive the fastest racing line with more and more speed. However, if your advanced car control techniques takes you off the faster/racing line, then you'll have a clear and immediate feedback telling you something is wrong with your car control technique but in order to notice that feedback you have must first have a baseline/reference (i.e. be consistently able to drive the racing line). fullsus, i would also check out the link in the signature (directly below), you may find it helpful. I'll leave you with a quote but can't remember who i heard it from... "Practice does not make perfect.....Perfect practice makes perfect".
Good points. You can think of the Skippy's balanced point (where the grip is neutral between the front and rear tyres and thus they have the same slip angle and thus the car neither over-steers or under-steers) occurs when the throttle pedal is pushed in a certain amount. Anything less and it's unstable at the rear so braking is really limited to straight line and later some trail braking once you've gotten a good handle on threshold braking and at the limit throttle car control throughout the corner...then you can start blending the two together for some corners that it's applicable to). Someone correct me if i'm wrong, I think the instability behavior was purposely designed into the skippy to force students to learn to drive with always needing to apply some amount of throttle so they're forced to really learn throttle control throughout a corner by punishing anyone who tries to coast through a corner. I.e. purposely made difficult to drive (at first) to teach you to drive (almost all) cars the fastest way possible.
When I attended schools, worked at one for almost a year and even did a bit of instructing at 1, everyone (except actual racers, but the majority of customers aren't racers anyway) is told to brake in a straight line, then quickly back on a steady constant throttle of around 20% or so as you start turning in. Then you slowly apply more and more throttle the more and more you unwind the wheel as you exit the corner as if you have a slack-less piece of string connected from your wheel to your pedals. Basically, get back on the throttle and hold some steady throttle during turn -1n.
The same as the book said: " When I attended my first racing school, I was taught to do all my braking in a straight line on the approach to a corner, then turn into the corner. Over the next couple of years I gradually learned by trial and error to trail brake.But when I started to race a Trans-Am car a few years later, I had to improve my trail braking. It was the only way to go fast in one of those cars."
@DrR1pper I saw your rpm betweem 5000-6000rpm all time. Your driving is very smooth .. Thank for your vdo.
Thank for your tip . Before I read the book: I don't know about trail braking. I race with AI follow them and can't break to the speed that can turn in without understeer (I start break at same point of AI but speed before turn in is too high) so I continue light break and turn in to the apex and ease off brake very slow. After I read the book these method call trail braking.
Don't worry about the A.I. They don't use 100% player physics, and not 100% same tyre model, and probably not at 100% the same physics refresh rate and so on and so on and so on. You can't compare to the A.I. in terms of where they gain and loose their speed, their lines, their inputs, etc.
A lap with pedal overlay at Mid Ohio, August 2013. It's an oversteery setup, I love oversteer with this car, the feeling of beeing on the limit of rear grip and dance with the car And now a bonus/spam video of one of my best and enjoyable online races with this car, you can hear the throttle and look at always high RPM and wheel movement to see how the balance is important here: The trick is... never let this car run more than 2 meters during a turn with 0% throttle after a fast brake release, and never brake hard during start of a turn with 0% throttle because rear wheels will lose weight and then grip. Just stay with external front and external rear wheels allways loaded while turning. Then... if you manage this, you will be able to push more and then do better times abusing It as fast Skip drivers do
