Why is the Skip Barber so difficult if it's supposed to be a noob car?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by momoracer, Jan 7, 2018.

Tags:
  1. softslider

    softslider Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    12
    Skill to control low yaw momentum cars such as Skip Barber and F-Vee seems a little(or a lot) differernt than the skill for like GT3. But if a driver has enough higher resolution to control the car and fast reaction time, maybe the driver don't care the car's category.
     
  2. Magus

    Magus Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    435
    I'm not a race car driver so my opinion is not valid but just a point of view I discovered in learning the sim version of the Skip.

    It taught me the correct way to approach a corner, turning into it, and accelerating through & out of it. Otherwise the car would punish you. So yes, very different to GT3 in feel BUT ultimately the skip teaches you the correct fundamentals of cornering with pretty much all 4-wheeled racing disciplines through a punishment system (spinning if not done correctly (enough)).
     
    John, Leynad and alexSchmurtz like this.
  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,445
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    That's where I think the confusion lies. The FVee presented isn't a car built by a team to be its best within competition guidelines, it's made to highlight certain driving behaviours by demanding to be driven a particular way. It's not like driving a normal racing car because it's not one.
     
    Jakal and DrivingFast like this.
  4. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    356
    I'm weary of claims that the Skippie teaches people how to drive.
    From being extremely unbalanced.
    Jury is still out on that one imo.
    Reacting to car dynamics is more of an instinct.
    If you don't have the correct instincts good luck acquiring them at a driving school.
    So yeah, weight shifting at the back increases grip at the back and the Skippie makes that more obvious than anything else.
    So what, people going off throttle in another car can't feel the difference because it won't spin?
    Can't they see that the front end tucks in?
    Or that if they go on the power (within reason) the front washes out?
    If the first time your real world car wiggles it's tail you stomp on the brakes then good luck becoming a racing driver through practicing.
    The Skip Barber used to be a thing back when it WAS a thing.
    Now it's history.
    Still good fun to drive and race though, not worth bothering too much with imo.
    So long as the race car doesn't depend on TC and ABS to go round a corner and the drivers have to do the job themselves then it is proper.
    Anything that does is not.
    imo:D
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,445
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    @christos_Swc Yep, plenty of people don't understand how what they're doing impacts car behaviour. Real life and in sims. Driving school cars exaggerate the effects so you know what those effects are, and what they're linked to. Once you get the hang of that it should be easier to feel the same effects in another car that is more subtle.

    It's learning. No one's born able to drive a car (or do very much at all, actually) and while some people appear more naturally gifted in various pursuits, for the most part people have to learn somewhere. No one gets good at anything (including driving) without learning, whether that's more structured lessons or subconsciously learning through actions and reactions.

    See, even if some people will stomp on the brakes when the tail starts moving, very few that were sober the first time will do it a second time.
     
    Filip likes this.
  6. roszman

    roszman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    You can try to change the tires from road to national (in tuning menu). After this change the skippy is not very difficult.
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    Guys... you will never run away from necessity of improving skills, unless you'll keep racing singleplayer with AI that is comfortably set so you could win. As soon as you'll hit online you'll get pwned and will have to suffer midfield chaos, so you better face the challenges.
     
    memoNo1 likes this.
  8. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    629
    wow didnt knew that
    i ll try it thanks for tip
    also both cars are difficult but fun to learn how to race with them
    RF2 has the most beautiful skip barber ever plus the REIZA FVEE is really beautiful
     
    Magus likes this.
  9. roszman

    roszman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    @mesfigas np ;)
    I still spin out occasionally, but on slick tiers it's much easier to drive, I've found this option two days ago after few weeks of trying to keep skippy in track boundries :). Now I don't lock front tiers so much and I "feel" that I have more grip.
    gl and hf ;)
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  10. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    629
    @roszman all i have in mind is not to block the front tires in both skipy and f-vee
    cheers mate
     
  11. roszman

    roszman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    @mesfigas I've read that in that case the good break pedal with load cell can help, but I don't have one so I can't confirm that.
    Edit: Or move break bias a little to the back
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    Also practice helps. As well as car setup tweaks.
     
  13. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    If I remember correctly the vee and skip are really dependent on your use of the throttle and brakes. As that is which causes weight distribution through the car, makes it unbalanced etc. I think balancing the throttle too balance the car has helped me drive the thing. Hard to explain but don't do any sudden lift offs or brake stamping to throw the car off with sudden Inertia/weight change.
     
  14. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    356
    This is where we disagree but...
    ...there's not much more I would say on it that I wouldn't be repeating exactly what I wrote first time out, which I stand by 100%;)
    Also, the reactions we discussed are instinctive.
    There's no thought process involved.
    So if one were to stomp on the brake when the rear starts to go , what makes you think the next time they won't do it again, when there's no thinking involved, just natural reflexes.
    Got nothing to do with knowledge and choice.
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    Yeah sure driving a car is a natural instict. Well perhaps in year 15 000. You probably meant subconscious. But you also misjudged the anticipation factor, and also that before subconscious skills are developed it is quite a conscious work for unskilled not experienced person.
     
    Filip likes this.
  16. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    356
    I don't know about the subconscious, but that the reaction to a car getting out of shape for a daily driver is instinctive, whatever the reaction may be.
     
  17. roszman

    roszman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2019
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    When I start to sim race I read a book or two about driving race cars. My instincts on track weren't good or proper, but trough experimentation, analysis and though process I've affected part of my instinctive behaviours. I think it's called learing ;) I think you can learn subconsciously by repeating the same excercise and receiving reward or punishement, or you can learn consciously, by repeating the same excersise, analyzing it and learn more about the subject from different sources. I think the latter is more effective. Of course there is still talent involved. Overall I am not an expert on the subject, so I can be wrong, everyone is different and my opinion for sure is subjective ;)

    Back to the point. To learn vee and skippy you need patience, copy of https://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-Mastering-Race-Driving/dp/0837602262 or/and https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Speed-Secrets-Complete-High-Performance/dp/0760340501/ref=sr_1_1 or/and https://www.amazon.com/s?k=going+nowhere+faster&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 and some free time to practice :)
    (you don't need to read all of those books, just pick one and read one or two first chapters, usually there are race car driving basics)
     
    memoNo1 and McKiernan like this.
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,445
    Likes Received:
    2,359
    Driving a car isn't a natural activity.

    People who rely on their talent tend to be better than average, but never reach the top.
     
  19. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    356
    People that lack talent are the ones that never reach the top.
    It's only the most talented who at the same time are willing to put in the hard work required that reach the top.
    There is not a single activity in life that does not require talent to be executed more efficiently, be it driving or knitting.
    You can better someone more talented by trying harder but the moment they try as hard as you it's over.
    And for glory, they will.
     
  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    1,357
    I recently feel lack of talent, as I had too much single player... competition system could revive that little bit of talent that I have. And the talent that I am speaking about is actual pure drive, will, passion, motivation and all those other words that means being crazy about doing something.

    My instincts so far tells me to eat, but my rational mind says that it is too late and I should keep my weight down lol
     

Share This Page