Spotter / Crewchief / Team radio suggestion help needed

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,764
    Likes Received:
    143
    We have laptime reporting and the basic spotter in rF2, but intend to add more verbal feedback after the initial beta and possibly as later updates. I'd appreciate some suggestions.

    Think out the process of racing... Watch the races this weekend/next weekend and listen to the team radios... Think about changes such as weather... Does the crew need to tell you it's starting to rain? Do you need to be told the red or blue light is on at the end of the pit lane?

    If you give a suggestion, try to suggest triggers, too. That way we can fully understand the need or the commands we need to look at. For example 'car high' would need to be triggered when a car is to the right of you on an oval. But would it need to be triggered slightly before that car is alongside? Or should we be saying 'looking high' instead?

    Thanks,

    Tim.
     
  2. Bty

    Bty Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    It would be good idea about rain/oil on the track, accidents and yellow flags, cold tyre and brakes, if losing or gaining time compered to other drivers, in what sector your times are bad or if they are good and you are near an opponent to tell you to try to overtake in that sector, if there are a lot of spun offs in a particular corner, when you get on the podium, ...


    And of course the classic: Alonso is faster then you!
    Or more in the rFactor 1 style. At the start: remember you won't win in the first corner but you can lose the race. :)

    Also add an option to mute him if you need focus, like the drivers in RL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2011
  3. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    29
    I'm glad you (ISI team) want to make a spotter build in. But I believe that spotter behaviour is too complex at basis that's why it is not right time to develop it. Moreover such spotter will be linked with ISI and likely not further developed due to lack of resources. Exception would be providing source code for 3rd party devs.

    I think the best think is to provide all possible events/data into plugin API and work with it later. It's would be more flexible imo.

    But if you want to build it, I suggest all settings should be configured as much as possible. For example if rain is coming, there should be an option to set how early it should be spoken by spotter. I think spotter plugin released for rF1 does define a good starting point. Info about tire wear, temp, engine fitness, water/oil temp, damage (lost parts of cars, affecting aero, handling).
    Of course I count on additional data like aprox time to rain (in each section of circuit)

    What I might suggest is adding:
    - more data/triggers to plugin api (like pit comm state, pit ready, pit option selection, car damage, location/turn number of YF)
    - possibilities to control racing features by spotter/team. It'll make possible to use speech recognition to do some actions like call pitstop, ask for status etc

    Another great feature, also taken from rF1 spotter, is variability of spotter responses. I mean there should be possibility to record single message multiple times (10, 20, infinity) and play it randomly. I sounds a lot less artificial.

    I'm not sure should I refer to rF1 spotter plugin. I worked closely with its developer, I recorded about 2000 messages for polish version of spotter and believe it is the best sample we may start with.
     
  4. Nimugp

    Nimugp Registered

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    140
    Warning for wildlife on track would be cool too:


    and on a more serious note, I think it would be nice if yellow flags are reported (both safety car, as local yellow's), maybe some blue flag notification. In fact, maybe just information on all flags used ;)

    next to that maybe some race/session information (position every time you complete a lap in qually, and maybe every once in a while in race (on start finish, every time after you're on a different position then previous lap?)
     
  5. sg333

    sg333 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    227
    If RF2 can handle it, details on oval pitting. Like in NASCAR when theres a couple dozen cars pitting at once you'll hear a car leave the pit box with "wait wait <car pulls into box ahead> ...ok go go go.... all the way ,<to outside lane> watch the 12... dont speed..."

    Highly complex i imagine, though.

    On the spotting thing, though, some variety is needed, rather than "car high....car high... car high...." it should be "looking outside...still outside..... still there..... your on the bottom... outside.."
     
  6. the_last_name_left

    the_last_name_left Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll have a think but a few things come to mind - being told when people are out, or involved in an incident (and their race position before and after). Triggers obvious. When close competitors are pitting and when team-mates are. In a long-enough race, being told if you're catching the lass in front, or if she's catching you. If you beat your PB, or lap record.
     
  7. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    31
    Things I want to hear from spotter.


    When half way point of race is reached.
    20 laps remaining.
    2 laps remaining.
    "The number 11 car is entering pits"
    "The leader is entering pits"
    "The number 11 car is exiting pits"
    "The leader is exiting pits"


    Delta lap times of myself and any position of my choice.
     
  8. cloudXXI

    cloudXXI Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    4
    +1

    What part of the car has been damaged is very useful.

    Any car beating fast lap in race (a lot of leagues have extra points for fast laps).

    And it would be great if you can choose one car as teammate, and the spotter gives you information about how he´s doing: position, pits, crash.....
     
  9. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    45
    First and foremost
    1. Prioritize messages
    2. Do not use full sentences
    3. Do not finish messages that are no longer valid. Start new, updated message immediately.

    An example from rFactor - Indianapolis 500 race. I'm passing S/F line and spotter tells me: "<static noise> That was a... fourty... two... point... one..." - I'm allready entering turn one and he says: "<static noise> You've... <sound of cars colliding> got a car... <sound of car hitting the wall> on the inside."

    With the 3 changes above it would be: "<static noise> That was a.... fourty... Inside... Inside...".
    (of course you need to be a noob not to see a car on the inside at Indianapolis but It's just and example)

    Another example - a car moves in on my inside and we're approaching a turn. Spotter says: "<static noise> You've..." and in the same time another car moves to the inside and I'm 3W on the outside. Spotter continues with: "...got a car on the inside" - he wastes time to tell me about something that's no longer true instead of abandoning it and telling me that I'm 3W.
    (in this case even experienced driver may not see the third car, because it's hidden)


    Or to put it simply - spotter should keep up with what's going on on the track.



    Ovals

    1. "car high" / "car low" triggers - don't wait for car to get along - use speed difference and distance to predict at least 1 second in advance.
    It doesn't matter if it's going to be "car high", "looking high" or "outside" - the point is - you can no longer go there because it's too late (even if you're still slightly in front, he's going in and if you move there you're likely to crash because he won't be able to react that quickly).
    If I have to choose - "Inside" / "Outside" is best. You get indication with the very first letter you hear. "looking inside" means you get actual information almost one second later, because there's no difference between "looking" and "looking", so it's a waste of precious time :)

    If I were a driver I would sit down with my spotter and develop shortest expressions possible for common situations. Kinda like voice commands.
    Full sentences like "You've got car on the inside" make no sense, because in that case I'm be able to check my mirror twice before spotter even gets to the word "inside".




    2. Detect 3W, 4W etc. properly - if someone sticks a nose on my inside, I'm 2W with him. If some else will stick his nose on his inside, I will not be alongside the third car, but I'm 3W nonetheless.
    In other words - I don't have 2 cars on my inside yet, but I have a car on inside that has another car on inside.


    That's it for now. I'm only trying to make valid points, so if I remember something else I ran into, I'll post it later.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2011
  10. [NAR]Steve

    [NAR]Steve Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    23
    A simple request, and shouldn't be hard to implement, different accents, like for GP cars, an English or Italian accent could be chosen .... not a big fan of hearing a redneck accent in my F1 mods, lol :p
     
  11. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    9
    NO WHEELGUNS IN THE PITS!!! :p
     
  12. blakboks

    blakboks Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    30
    I would like to see an option to assign 'requests' for certain information to buttons (or keyboard) and have it spoken back to me. Such as: tire condition, fuel, delta car ahead, delta car behind, delta leader, fastest lap times, lap time deltas for the different cars as well (i.e. "you've gained 1.24 seconds on the car ahead on that lap"), time (in minutes or laps) to expected rain, how long the rain will last. If we're talking about all the rules of F1 being implemented as well (I know these will be much more difficult to implement), then we might also want to know tire strategy, whether a car ahead needs to serve a penalty, whether we're racing the car directly ahead or (if they need to serve a pit stop) if we're racing a car further ahead of them.

    Something that might be interesting to hear as well is your engineer urging you on (thinking of Steve Matchett (sp?) here: "c'mon push! push!")--with the obvious option to turn that off as well. Speaking of whom...perhaps he would be willing to participate in recordings! Gotta have the obligatory Englishman in racing!
     
  13. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    101
    +1 to everything what K Szczech wrote. Those are the most important, that we are missing in rF 1.

    Tim, is there a plan to have sort of a telemetry data flow from car to pits in real time? If yes, there could be possibility to limit, what data can be transfered, then it would be nice to link that with what spotter can tell you.
    Obviously, in SCCA series you won't hear from your mechanic that you have cold brakes... but from F1 engineer - you will.

    All flag events should be possible to be notified to driver, but we should be able to configure, which are active (but I don't know if that should be tied to racing series or track?). I'm not expecting to hear from my mechanic that I have blue flag on Laguna Seca during ALMS, but when I'm in NASCAR series at Daytona, then probably I will hear that (I'm guessing, as I'm not that much into oval racing).

    The best way though, is to have it like Maxym proposed. Community will do the rest :)
     
  14. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,764
    Likes Received:
    143
    Thank you to those who posted as asked. I appreciate it.

    No, it isn't the right time to develop it. But I didn't say it was. That's why I both said we're not doing it at this time, and that I'm asking for ideas for when it is.

    We do not need development advice of this sort from you anymore, and it isn't what was asked for, please keep your judgements and unfounded comments on resources to yourself. You cannot turn every topic into this. Eventually you are going to lose posting privileges here.

    The rest of your post was quite full of good ideas, and it was pretty much what I would have wanted. It's just a shame that you have to ruin all your posts.
     
  15. rci808

    rci808 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    1
    i hope this isn't holding up release...

    i prefer silence.
     
  16. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,764
    Likes Received:
    143
    ...

     
  17. Nibo

    Nibo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,014
    Likes Received:
    720
    Ability to turn on and off only commands that I want to hear. Like in Spotter plugin for rF1.

    Mute all incoming radio by pressing selected button during race. Pressing again - unmute.

    Option to select oval style (car high, car low) and road course style (car left, car right) reporting. This is very important. Spotter on roads that tells you if somebody is alongside you is very helpful and reduces accidents.

    If weather will be reported, it will be good if it will be as close to real life as possible. In real life nobody knows for sure when rain starts and how long it would be. So some randomness in spotter reporting rain needed. Messages I want to hear: "we expect rain in X minutes", "rain will be for X minutes (or to the end of race)", "rain will be X intensity", "rain will be constant (or will get worse, or will get lighter)". If its already raining - "we expect rain to end in X minutes", reported every X minutes (configurable).

    I will think on more :)
     
  18. dragon

    dragon Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    1
    I will tell You what you want when I will be have game(rF2). :)
     
  19. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    31

    *holding back urge to post thoughts*
     
  20. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,732
    Likes Received:
    2,095
    Probably already been said above but heres what I'd like purely from watching the V8Supercars and knowing what they say to their drivers:

    - "Careful Turn 5 & 6, Oil Spill" = Triggered by someones engine blowing up (also presume Oil Spills are in RF2!)
    - "Rain back end of circuit" or "Rain Turns 7 & 8" = Triggered by the obvious, having Rain spread across the track gradually or raining in one part and not the other (as does happen) this could be invaluable information for the Driver
    - "Rain coming be prepared" = If you cant trigger the above then how about the CrewChief warns in advance of oncoming rain? maybe also "Rain in 5minutes wets are ready" for example
    - "Go easy on the Rears", "steady on the Tires they need to last" = Triggered by over use of the Rear tires, either by too much wheelspin or over driving (Triggered by Heat/Wear factors when driving perhaps)
    - "OK head down lets get some good laps in" = Triggered once cold tires (after Pit Stop) have come upto heat, also when you've overtaken someone
    - "Driver X on different strategy let him go" = Triggered when someone behind is closing fast but as they are perhaps on Softs & different fuel strategy they can be let past
    - "Driver X faster than you in sectors 2 & 3" = Triggered by Sector times between each driver
    - "You're faster than Driver X in Sectors 2 & 3" = Triggered same as above
    - "Co-Driver light ON" = Triggered by the Co-Driver entering the car for his stint, perhaps the Player has to press a button and the light comes on, same with "CPS" (Compulsory Pit Stop light)
    - "Yellows turn 5" = Triggered by Yellow Flags
    - "Headlights On" = Triggered when approaching back markers or on a Fast Lap during Qualifying
    - "Easy we want to finish this race" = Triggered due to amount of damage sustained in the first few laps of a race
    - "Save me some fuel" = Triggered should the Fuel life be too close to not making the chequered flag
    - "We wont make the distance, need splash and go" = Triggered when you wont make the chequered flag on fuel
    - "Fresh rears only" = Triggered when getting fresh rears during Pit Stop, ditto for Fronts or "Rigth Side only" etc

    In the Pits:
    - "Nice and steady into the box" = Triggered when entering the Pit Lane
    - "5, 4 ,3 ,2, 1 stop" = Triggered when entering your Pit Box
    - "Waiting on fuel 5seconds, 4, 3, 2, 1, Clear to go" = Triggered when Pit Stop almost complete
    - "Pit Lane is clear when we drop you" = Triggered by a clear or partial clear Pit Lane nearing the end of your stop
    - "Merge behind Driver X" = Triggered when you get dropped to merge behind someone to avoid contact
    - "Cold Tires, Full Fuel be careful" = Triggered when exiting the Pits


    I'll probably think of more later
     

Share This Page