Remove rFmod Petition

Discussion in 'Component and Mod Packaging' started by Wrinkly Man, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. steve30x

    steve30x Registered

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    Your assuming everybody knows their way around the file structure of a computer. When I was working in a computer shop I was surprised at the start as to how many people barely kne how to turn on the computer never mind having to wade through the folders. Some people just barely knew how to start their web browser and 90% of the people had out of date anti viruse programs.

    Honestly how hard is it to grasp the fact that not everybody know how to fully work a computer. Making things harder is the wrong way to do this. Also it was a whole lot easier to find where the files went in RF1 than it is in RF2.
     
  2. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    I would hardly call the average rFactor sim racer an idiot. The average PC user is not our target audience.

    ModIDs are a vehicle to give those who are hosting events an opportunity to convey relevant information to those who wish to join.

    This beta is a period to build on this foundation. Once solid adding additional functionality becomes possible including the subset of random pickup races.

    Its not them complaining the most...
     
  3. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Keeping the packages around are a convenience. I run on a laptop, I keep very few of them.

    You do not need them for updates.

    The "system" infrastructure is statistically small enough that I round it down to zero. I think there is a general misconception about this.
     
  4. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Yes I am going to say that :)

    I think its important to qualify what the concern is trying to address.

    There seems to be a lot of focus on the pitfalls of random pick up races the evening new tracks are released. This scenario is one that can be addressed but is best done after the system is more solid.

    A ModID released by a league is a good starting point for anyone wishing to take part. Its also allows the host the time to test that the car/track combos they have put together make sense and contain the necessary pieces; pit stalls, rules, ect. At some point it may also constrain which version of the software or additional plugins it may require.
     
  5. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Although this system doesn't "approve" mods, or host the content, the ModID is the starting point (or at least the building block) for exactly this.. a database of mods and updates.

    You wish good luck to ISI, for that I say thank you! With this new system we are building to get racers together with hosts, but with a little more than luck :)

    As for downloading or storing the same content twice... I say don't do it. Its not a requirement, nor desirable.
     
  6. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    I will be here in 4 years, you can blame me.

    Adding some structure to mods should reduce the number of destructive ones. Sure problems will still happen, but for those who want to reduce their risk, they can stick to the public more well rated ones.
     
  7. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    BTW at this point I'm only answering questions to get to 100 posts, else I don't get paid this month. So if I start cut-pasting Martha Stewart recipes, you'll know why.
     
  8. Dahie

    Dahie Registered

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    Any recommendations?


    I am in favour of the new system. Disclaimer, I did not try to create my own packages and I am sure I will find missing features as well, however I see that as a necessary first step, we have to go through.

    I worked with package systems before on Linux and Gems and having such an infrastructure is just amazing, once it works fine. The biggest problem is, that our content packges become really large (1.4GiB for CTDP's 2006 mod) and the rfmod packages will need a strong compression(7zip or better) to be comfortable for this large data. What is missing is a lot of surrounding infrastructure like a Mod-Database, Installers, Installation documention for beginners, many things we do not need ISI to handle, but we can do ourselfes with a bit of thought, effort and time.
     
  9. Slamfunk3

    Slamfunk3 Registered

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    I too have my reservations about the system however i think its still early days. There seems to b a little bit of misinformation getting spread around here which in turn is causing some people to start panicking. First as far as install this Mod system is actually easier, everything goes into one folder. With rF1 there was multiple folders that things had to b put into. As far as leagues all u have to realese is a Vmod, small file that guarantees everyone has the same content. Updates have the same modID so no need to get the mod all over again, just update the existing one. And the naming problem, tho a legitimate one, is nothing new compared to rF1. At least now u have a modID number to make sure ur getting exactly what u need. If people get in the habit of including that number in the description of their download u should b able to easily google it, no matter where its hosted.

    The biggest change i see is that this system causes Mods to become more of a game within a game. Most quality mod teams treat their work this way already. Biggest issue, the fact that all the guys doin all the nice little custom edits of the game r frozen out. Hopefully thats somethin that gets addressed in the future.
     
  10. dano1990

    dano1990 Registered

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    I can understand the logic of the new the system for online use, all componants of a mod are in one download etc and all easily installed/uninstalled etc.

    BUT:

    The problem comes when you have more than one version of each mod each using the same content. And again when using diffrent content by which i mean same car different tracks it becomes harder to find the exact files you need for that game,

    And an even bigger problem offline when a mod team releases a mod and trackpack but you dont always want to run on those tracks, You then have to create another file and when new tracks come along another file and another... Now it may be fairly easy to edit the 1st created file to inlcude the newer tracks but i ask this...

    Why should we have to keep creating or editing files everytime a new track comes along?

    I say split the ID's and have cars and tracks seperate, that way we can all run our favourite mods on our favourite tracks without having edit to files or create new ones,

    Also when going online this would stop the hundreds of different mod ID's for the same cars just with different tracks if you see what i mean? Just include an information box next to the server selected telling the user exactly what cars and tracks are being used and whether you have them installed or not, and where to get them.
     
  11. zim2323

    zim2323 Registered

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    lol, hilarious! Seriously though, I need a good recipe for tonight! =)

    Once a rfmod file has been installed, what do we need to keep? Is that content extracted or does it use that rfmod file? In other words, can I delete the rfmod file after I have installed the package?

    Would there be any reason in future that I would need to get it back other then if I deleted the mod/reinstalled the game?

    Thanks!
     
  12. Warlock

    Warlock Registered

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    2 dano1990: You absolutely right. Just don't understand why ISI did ModID system so ugly and set one single id for cars and tracks? Must be two different id: CarID and TrackID
    We should be able to racing with car on any installed track as it was on rF1.
     
  13. Gary Corby

    Gary Corby Registered

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    Isn't this problem really the same as the version hell developers go through when they package components for any software installer?

    So why not use an assembly manifest file? Replace the modID with a manifest of acceptable CarID and TrackID values, which also allows you to declare dependencies. Keep a central database of registered mods, and an automated installer can add whatever components are required for a given race without the player having to understand any of this.
     
  14. Ricoo

    Ricoo Registered

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    Guys I suddenly had a revelation. :cool:

    CarID and TrackID aren't absolutely needed.

    It would be enough if every track was released as a package with a ModID.

    Then every modders could make a vMOD or a package referring to the ModID of the track without having to include the track in his package.

    I agree vMOD should be loaded when connecting to a server for the first time. If the vMOD is small it shouldn't be a bandwidth problem. Better, vMOD should be provided by the matchmaker server, not the host server to avoid lag for the people on the host server.

    I like the idea of 1 package per mod or track, so I support the system as it is.

    If new tracks are released as true mods then the problem should be solved.

    Package with ModID for content (tracks and/or cars) and vMOD for track list, with vMOD loaded when you first connect to a new host using this particular vMOD.
     
  15. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    How does that allow the common people to run my track without Car Modder ABC including it?
     
  16. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    The base is pretty bad....so dont build on the base...the building will fall down.

    EDIT: Final goals for the system Gjon....what do intent it to do??

    I am done. No more comments about this. I wont even be using the system until the next BETA update.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2012
  17. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    If you want to test the car on 20 tracks, it takes 5 mins to create a ModID. If you add 4 more tracks 5 different times, one of your team members will have to invest 25 extra mins so you can test on 40 different tracks online. I understand its added work, but my guess if for your mods, this is a very piece of the total time that goes into your creation.
     
  18. Boss

    Boss Registered

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    The way I see it.

    One Racing sim with amazing possibilities, destroyed by over complicating the part that's meant to be easy, playing with your mates, online or in the garage, and I'm not talking leagues here, although i would be hard pressed to find a league admin that is looking forward to the extra work. How else do we as humans get to the point of wanting to join a league.

    +1 to going back to a car ID and a track ID
    Click (open software), click, click (select car and track), click (generate)
    Done

    Gary
     
  19. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Not sure the use of dumbass is appropriate description to give the novice user but these are the people that come to mind when we try to make our concerns with this system known. You may call us complainers! Yeah thanks for that. The fact is the people your suggesting aren't complaining are those that aren't able to see the pitfalls so they as I did once rely on people that can see and do understand how things work better then I did or may do now. All this is quite confusing even for me, I'd hate to see how the novice is going understanding all this. No wonder you'll note hearing from them!

    Ok like you say it takes 5 minute to create a modid. Once you've got your head around it that is. Cause people will in time. Ok now I have created a modid. To use it online now it has to be submitted? Now I have to distribute it to my testers. They test. I make changes to what ever is being worked on then we need to go through the hole proses again.

    It's not user friendly.

    It create a lot more work for leagues admin.

    It makes error very hard to fix in leagues or LAN situations.

    It makes modder online testing very slow and tedious, Both for the one going through the ID proses whether it be update ID or full rFModID. Then all testers need to download the new update.
    Currently the change file can be sent through MSN or similar, Just dropped it in the mods files. Time less then the 5 minute it take to make a ModID.

    Mod teams are made up of people all over the world. We're not all in one place were we can add a file to a flash drive and hand it on. Your talking a great many uploads and downloads by every one involve.
     
  20. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Sorry I was only calling Slothman a complainer :) Just kidding, really I am, I love you Slothman. When I come down there I am going to buy you a beer for every one of your posts… oh wait, a beer for every 100 posts LOL

    On a more serious note, I don’t want the average person to be using this system yet. I would like you and others here to continue to provide feedback and I and the team here will continue to refine it.
    No don’t do it like that. That would suck, you are right. You should instead do your online testing with your team in testing mode… I forget the option you have to use, but it allows testing to occur on the same ModID. I'll look up the details and get back to you.

    Only once you are happy and want to “publish” it will you have to create a Submit ID and then give it to the public.. if you choose.
    Even this current process which is WAY easier than you described can use refinement.
     

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