Discussion in 'Component and Mod Packaging' started by Wrinkly Man, Jan 22, 2012.
I am gonna hold you to that
I didn't read the packaging documentation yet, but as a long time linux user I can assure you a good packaging system is not only desirable, but a requirement if you don't want to mess up things. I used to install things with tar.gz, make configure && make install a lot of years ago (rF1 way) and dpkg or rpm (rF2 way) is MUCH better (with the right tools).
In rF1 you "just" download an archive with cars, some tracks, uncompress them IN THE RIGHT folder and you are good to go... until time to uninstall comes. I found several people on our community that had a hard time figuring out how to decompress the content in the right folder. Some did not get the "archive" concept at all. Even if they figured out, sometimes the track creator had a folder in the archive with all the contents, and sometimes the contents were in the archive root. To some people that were too much.
With the packages system they only have to put the download file in the same folder always and install it inside the game or using a tool. It's almost the same as the old way, but without inconsistencies. A win-win situation for the non tech guys. Ways to improve? double click in the downloaded package and it will autoinstall the mod in the game. Is it harder than in rF1? I don't think so (from the final user point of view)
Someone said the mods should be compressed using some strong algorythm like 7zip instead the actual rfmod. That way you can get a 2 GB mod in a 500 MB file. I compressed the meganes and got a 806 MB file... from a 822 MB original (and it was not fast at all). I think they are already pretty good compressed and should be distributed as is, not inside an archive (compressing an already compressed file is a waste of time, unless you really are very short of storage where a 3% is a huge gain).
As I said before, I did not read yet the doc and don't know if you can distribute a mod with olny a track inside and then use a virtual mod (leagues) requiring all of the components (car mods, track mods) to be available. According to some posts, it cannot be done (or that is what I understood). Is that right?
You are still 5 away from the 100 you wanted before the end of the month, just keeping you aware.
By the way I am not even trying to read this post and I surely am not signing no petition. I am designing my own track right now and that is taking up my time, when I get around to packaging this track then I will worry about it but not until then because things can still change in beta.
Has anyone ever sent beer in the post, Michigan happens to have some outstanding micro brewery's.
Vali: Forgive me if I'm wrong but it seams your reading in to this what the thread heading suggests.
I think that after people have discussed this topic many have came to see the merits and possibilities presented by this system as a hole.
The trouble is we're finding that the system has been cut to the bone so we only have the base to go on. As such we've been able to pick it to peace's.
The call to have it totally remove though I think is a past tence.
America make outstanding beer?....paleeeeze
anyway back to topic...
could you explain how this is possible if 2 seperate leagues with no association both pack full rfmod packages of the same content yet have different ModID's please...because i cant see how you download content only once...a vmod wouldnt be a proper option as an admin couldnt guarantee that all members have previously downloaded all the correct content
p.s. im not trying to be a stick in the mud about this subject...rFactor has been a big part of my life for the last 6 years and rF2 will be aswell ...i just cant see this part of it working very well lol
Phil that's just where the RF2 installer put it when I installed. As I said, when more becomes known about the the game (and I get more comfortable with it) I'll find a more appropriate place for it.....before all the downloads become available. Worst case scenario can't get any worse than a reinstall....lol.....and I've done that more times than I care to count with RF1.
HMM it shoulda installed the core in programs and a rFactor 2 data in documents,least that was the default for me
How on earth you cannot see that this solution is so balantly STUPID?? Your example makes it so clear.
You're an inteligent guy, I just can't comprehend that you still pushing with this ModID idea.
The TrackID + CarID is simple, easy, no hassle solution. Why do you insist to keep it difficult instead of simplifying things?
Oh well that's ok then.
I'm sure we will but at this stage I think we've put forward all we can. Some of the things we have found as possible problems you have suggested are only there because the system is only at it's base and most will not be there in the full system. As such it's hard to make a informed judgement with only half the elements in place.
Cheer for that.
PS: I hope you don't mind your posts multi quoted like some I've encountered. Unfortunately on a forum style media it's the only way to answer questions or statements in a way that makes it understandable.
After reading this one - I've understood that you TOTALLY do not understood how league administrated, how people play in rF and how they use it.
Mod for all is just a cars. NOT tracks. And not Cars+Tracks.
Right now I have installed F-Renault and HistoricOpenWheels.
Why I can't to run online race for HistoricOpenWheels on Malaysia or F-Renault on Spa? WHY? I have installed it all. Why I need to do some additional work? Why people who want to connect to my server should also do some additional work? What the reason? WTF?
Server should allow to run event with any installed mod (cars) on any installed track. And client should just check ModID (indeed CarID) and TrackID. If client already has the same cars and track - he can connect and go to race.
I can drive CART1998 Mod on JNS Tracks and also can drive IndyCar2010 on the same JNS Tracks and also can drive SCE or VHR on the same (just one time installed) JNS Tracks. I can drive even RFT2010 or Lawnmower on the same already installed JNS Tracks. And I don't need to do extra work. And all my drivers don't need to do it and redownload "new version of the mode with new ModID". It's just stupid.
Cars and Tracks is not linked. It should be separated and have different IDs = CarID and TrackID.
That's interesting! My installer put the core file + contents into my Document/rFactor2 file also.
When I installed it it asked for two root paths. I didn't change either as they both path correctly to the file structure of the PC. I did find it funny I wasn't able to find the file that was path directed to my programs files. Because of this I had no idea what file should be in the programs file I just left it as it installed. I have installed twice now and the files ended up in the same place. my Document/rFactor2 file. The core file is in rFactor2 directory.
I could manually move it but I'd rather know why it wasn't install correctly according to the two pathways it was given.???
Lol....that was exactly what I was thinking....LOL
I have heard of Michigans Micro Brewery's....I think Gjon has spoken about them before.....I might have to visit Michigan one of these day
CarID and TrackID is a good idea, but with this we need information in lobby when I click on server what Car and Track IDs(with mod names) are installed there, and on dedicated server should be possibility to select more than one car mod and different tracks
We have now two new tracks: Snetterton and Putnam Park...and we cant drive it online because we need to wait until track creators will create ModID for this track(if its possible only for one track...) or wait until someone add this one track to new mod or change existing mod and add this track...this is just stupid. Why we cant create seperate IDs for cars and tracks? And select on dedicated server what cars and tracks form installed on server we want drive on this server...
Just new track has been released and we cannot race it online until new version of All Cars & Tracks be released
That's the reason.
Lols @ angry trolls making demands during pre-release BETA (this is actually Alpha). Keep your troll-pants on and save your energy - you still have 6 months more whinging ahead of you.
Nand Gate, this is very important topic and should be addressed.
As you said, this is beta (alpha), this is the time when we give feedback about what is wrong and what should be improved.
If you don't understand this, then I'm sorry for you.
I think YOU will find that you don't actually KNOW what they have in store, and you may end up pleasantly surprised. If you are so gullible as to know they have done over 3 solid years designing this - and yet they haven't thought about exactly what you are whinging about....then I guess I must ask - what made you pay up if you think they are such amateurs? Maybe you should wait a while, and see how it pans out?
EDIT: Note to self - just don't get involved
The problem with "All Cars & Tracks" ModID is that I would have to download and install all cars and tracks it refers to.
The single ModID approach seems allright for leagues, where we have a set of cars ant tracks and stick to it for entire season and leagues are also ran in small communities with good communiaction.
Note that you must provide users with your ModID, so looking for races on ingame server list is pointless as you would have to find the website and download the mod anyway.
As for separate CarID / TrackID thing - why limit ourselves again?
Stick with ModID, but allow servers to send a list of required ModID's instead of just one. This way you can have a server running GT1 cars from one mod in combination with GT2 cars from another mod and a safety car from yet another mod.
This way you could make a "Track Day" on server, when users join with various civilian cars from different mods (selected on server) and enjoy just driving together.
It still protect from mismatches and missing content, because you need correct mod versions installed and a complete list of them (provided by server).
I think we should favor generic approaches whenever possible instead of strict approaches.
They're not amateurs. But neither they're allmighty. And more than that - many people in rFactor community aren't amateur either.
Sometimes ISI ask us for ideas, too. They asked for spotter advice, haven't they?
Developing something doesn't necessarily mean the same experience that you can get by actually hosting races, running leagues and developing mods within large community. They have their own experiences and point of view - we have ours.
It's true there is some whinning - there always is, with any product. There are always concerns - sometimes completely invalid and unnecessary. But there are also valid points in our feedback and it has absolutely nothing to do with trolling.
If they wouldn't care about our opinions - that's when we could call them amateurs
We already see how it's panning out. There are two new tracks that we can't race online, because someone have to create a new mod containing this tracks. Then I have to download this mod.
And if another new track appears then... Guess what.
Separate names with a comma.