Released Released | BMW M4 Class 1 2021

My only complaint about this car is the sound. These 4 cyl sound very close to each other (All 3 DTM C1, the 3 GT500 and even the Mazda Dpi). No idea how you managed to get this wrong to be honest.


 
Just did 15 minutes race in Zandvoort (RFRO server)
Had 31 liters of fuel, and i was pushing like crazy.
The tires lost 30% according to the vehicle status hud (2 blocks out of 6) during that race.

How they felt was; initial tiny drop in grip was about after 4 laps.
And around 9th lap i started to feel the wear, not really before that (minus the initial tiny drop after lap 4 or so). But i was still making laptimes within 1 second of the fastest lap which was lap 3.
I was thinking during the race, how i could easily conserve the tires by just dropping the pace a tiny little bit. Or more like, be little less aggressive.
So for 1 hour race, 1 pitstop to get new tires sounds about right.
Haven't done 30 mins or 1 hour race yet, but i would believe that the tires would easily last 30 mins, if i would take the wear in consideration even just a little during the race. Which would be awesome to have to consider during the race. One skill more required from the pilot in online simracing.
 
Can you tell me how I configure the DRS on the BMW? with which button can i activate and deactivate it?

Thank you for your help.
 
Kelju_K said:
I got some ISI vibes from the car too, as others have pointed out. Also one of the best default setups in the whole franchise.
The tire model is definitely step in the right direction. Understeer is more prominent now with higher slip angles. Stops aiding the turn with lower slip angle than before, and aids less in general. Very nice.

I feel the previous tire model was made easier to make the game more acceptable, and it kinda worked as many people felt the famous "rf2 connection to the car" with them from the first try. One now infamous youtuber for example ;)
This was not possible in ISI times, and basically everybody new struggled with the setups and the game felt excruciatingly hard.
The easier tires approach opened the can of worms tough in form of exploits that are now almost as famous as the game it self is unfortunately.

This car is very good example of, that the same rf2 instant connection to the car from first try can be achieved with good default setup, and at the same time keep the tires less forgiving.
I definitely love the way things are going now, and i hope that this trend is pushed even further, as i think there are still room to go more in this direction.

The car is little heavy on the performance side tough. Had to drop MSAA from x8 to x4, and lower texture quality from full to high to keep 90fps on Nordschleife (reverb G2), where as GTE's, GT3's, and P-cup allow them maxed out.
The impact on visual quality with lowering these settings is acceptable however, but clearly shows that the new car is quite a lot heavier on the gpu. It looks very good tough. Propably best looking cockpit so far, so the perf hit could be summarized as somewhat acceptable i guess. One can always wish more optimization tough.

Overall this is very good car. Goes to my top sim cars for sure. And that it was free, is really something else. I feel pampered, and that "you shouldn't have" -feeling in my heart.

So thank you very very much, for this free awesome experience.
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Hi guys, I've been away from this sim for a while and see all this talk about this 'new' tire model. Could someone enlighten me what's this is about? Is it a change in code or does this car have newly designed tires with new data?
 
Rony1984 said:
Hi guys, I've been away from this sim for a while and see all this talk about this 'new' tire model. Could someone enlighten me what's this is about? Is it a change in code or does this car have newly designed tires with new data?
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What I understood, nothing is really different, they are just using more data, with a different approach. Massively different to other cars though
 
Ok,, so i made a "new default" setup, that is little bit easier and more stable than the real default.
Like i have said before, the default setup is very good, i think one of the best if not the best default setup in the game.
So no big changes from it.
Basically it allows you to come off the brakes little bit more rapidly, as i have noticed that most loose the car on that moment. (not trying to be wise ass here, just my observation). you still cant jump off off the brakes tough, still needs to be progressive. this was done with damper settings alone.
Also i like a setup that turns well on brakes, and continues to turn almost even to a halt. so it might be bit nose sensitive for some, and also might nose dive too much for some. if you feel that way, just take the damper settings from this setup.
it's also bit grippier, on slides, and allows to catch the slides bit further than default.
Tire wear has been very uniform on all corners with this setup.

Here you go:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14jbCzqQADy6dYqK6EyS72_k95VSJ1Nkq/view?usp=sharing

Edit.
RFRO is hosting a hotlap server, and there has been people every night. Big shout out to RFRO for hosting the server!
They are currently running zandvroort and about 70 people have set a time there.
Here is another setup; zandvoort hotlap setup:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EDZdRW34OP6-M44biCPwULnNUCIRm1Ir/view?usp=sharing
Go set a time there and see where you stand against the aliens :eek:
Times set, update slowly on the hotlap table, and sometimes they dont :(
But here is the link:
https://live.racingfr.net/
 
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I’m the only one not liking this car?!
I’m not taking about being fast because even with AI at 110% I’m faster but this car has no grip at all . With these slick large tires and aero package damn this should have a lot of grip. Even with hot tires you are always on the edge. I can’t believe this car is realistic as many of you are claiming .
I don’t find that there is a grip difference between hot and cold tires…. I hope that Studio397 won’t ruin the GT3 and GTE cars with these tires and make them undrivable as the old ISI cars and stop it with difficult to drive means more realistic. All GT drivers confirm that GT cars aren’t that difficult to drive.
 
GTClub_wajdi said:
I’m the only one not liking this car?!
I’m not taking about being fast because even with AI at 110% I’m faster but this car has no grip at all . With these slick large tires and aero package damn this should have a lot of grip. Even with hot tires you are always on the edge. I can’t believe this car is realistic as many of you are claiming .
I don’t find that there is a grip difference between hot and cold tires…. I hope that Studio397 won’t ruin the GT3 and GTE cars with these tires and make them undrivable as the old ISI cars and stop it with difficult to drive means more realistic. All GT drivers confirm that GT cars aren’t that difficult to drive.
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The car has lots of grip. It's a very fast car at accelaration, so it's difficult to manage this in corner exits that are slow, without no ABS or TC, don't forget that.

Difficult doesn't mean realistic, but more difficult then what GT cars are right now is more realistic. I like the new tires and don't forget this car is stiff as a brick... It will be edgy, not like the GT cars with softer suspensions all around, in wich the tires will not feel the same.

And yeah, cold vs hot I can't see the difference also...
 
williang83 said:
Probably i'll go against the flow here but i don't get the double standards. I can master the car and go decently fast, so i have no real issue. However, i see that the tires are really constantly on the edge specially when on corner exit where you just go slight outside and i'm not even referring to grass but just going beyond curbs but still away from grass.

Honestly, although in different degree and way, but they kind of remind me the old and extremely criticized iRacing ice tires. People have bashed them for years, some people here was even proud to share video of some RL drivers (eg. nicki thiim) who used to bash them saying that they felt like they were too much on edge and literally you have little margin area, almost binary. Yet here we are praising a similar tire like a revolution.

When it comes to GTE vs this BMW I find both tires off. I mean the car is fun to drive, but whether tires are cold or hot they pretty much slide easily in most condition which some are okay but others are simply a bit exaggerated just like iRacing tires (specially the old ones).

I mean rather than having them behaving more realistically (eg. more realistic temperature window - like feeling them build grip up as they get more into temperature window), this resemble more an very artificial difficulty. This is the problem of most video games, most of time rather than try to mimic the real source of difficulty that real drivers has to deal with, they simply add artificial difficulty.

I might be wrong but this is my take so far.
Click to expand...
I can’t agree more.
 
rdon
Nieubermesch said:
The car has lots of grip. It's a very fast car at accelaration, so it's difficult to manage this in corner exits that are slow, without no ABS or TC, don't forget that.

Difficult doesn't mean realistic, but more difficult then what GT cars are right now is more realistic. I like the new tires and don't forget this car is stiff as a brick... It will be edgy, not like the GT cars with softer suspensions all around, in wich the tires will not feel the same.

And yeah, cold vs hot I can't see the difference also...
Click to expand...

I feel the same. This car is very stiff. And stiff cars like this will be edgier on the limit. When the rear of the car brakes away accelerating, it feels exactly like I had expected it to after seeing onboard footage of the real life counterparts. To me, the behaviour feels very much right and I'm enjoying it a lot to try to be on that ragged edge all the time.(which I actually feel isnt that ragged btw. Maybe it's something to get used to, but after some practice, I find the limit not all that narrow.)

I feel all cars are difficult in their own way. No matter how a (sim)car drives, extracting 100% out of it will always be difficult.
 
I always push even in out lap, and for me at least, the outlap (cold) is night and day difference to the second and third lap.
I mean the out lap is so much more slippery that i use it only as indication of biggest flaws in the setup.
second lap is already much better.
I haven't really paid attention on temperatures in degrees on the second lap, so maybe we are talking about different thing...

´goggo1peter said:
thanks alot Kelju_K
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The pleasure is all mine sir.
I have been there, were making the setups was very difficult. trial and error, and many times got totally lost in the setup. But i had help, in form of superb setups, and also i was taught how to make them.
That person is now gone. He helped everybody in need. Also outside of simracing.
So im just giving away something i got as a gift.

I also wanted to give RFRO some recognition and visibility. They are just great.
I have been enjoying their servers for a year now, and have always been treated with kindness and respect on their server. Not one single yerk in all this time.
And they have hotlap table for their servers that anyone can see, without registration or login. How great is that!!!?
I love it. Not because i'm competing against people there, but many times when i have had a setup that "feels good" i have set a time and saw that i'm 2 seconds behind the guys that i usually land around. That has made me work more on the setup and somehow miraculously squeeze those 2 seconds of the time. Doing that has been very enjoyable and rewarding.
Where i land on the table is not important. Nor is who is in front of me, or behind. Who around i land is, because it tells me how well my setup turned out. Just a reality check really. And nice to see how others did with one particular car too.
It's a small fraction of the rf2 community, mostly french guys. So what would the position on the table mean anyways...?
When the first World Fastest Gamer competition was held, i didn't participate, but compared my times to those who did. My time was around 400th fastest. And if there was 20 guys who didn't participate, for 1 that did, where would it land me? 8000th fastest gamer in the world at best!!! :D
So i have no illusion of my speed. But that hotlap table is still sooooo nice too have. And it's for free.
Why S397 doesn't have one? Dont know? But maybe thats why RFRO server has had people every night, when S397 server has been empty...
 
@GTClub_wajdi I had two sided feeling about this car. Initially I loved it absolutely, it just seemed to do all great, focusing on handling, I did not pay attention on stuff such as cold vs hot grip, which I will do later. So initially it was awesome, then yesterday I didn't like it as much, but I didn't like driving anything that much overall yesterday, I didn't feel like I had good health, I was slower than day before, was a bit grumpy because I just switched to new UI plus couldn't join competition system for some reason and was in not a good mood... these things counts in into perception of a car. I planned to do some nice driving today, but health wasn't there again (I had heat stroke few weeks before). I hope tomorrow I'll feel sharper.

I watched DTM video posted in this thread of Rene Rast. You can clearly see car is playful, but it is indeed not sliding too much. Logically, the driver has to be taken into account, we can't take skills for granted, maybe (and definitely) it takes many of hours in specific car for a pro to get so in tune with such beast car.

I agree that perhaps the rest of s397 rF2 cars shouldn't be rushed into converting the tires by using new logic. I suppose it is very likely still could be polished further, also we as community need more time with it, although we shouldn't be the end "experts", as devs and consulting tire manufacturers and pro drivers should be. Otherwise average guys will just end up with tires that complements average skill levels, which is perhaps good to please many more people temporarily, but can't be good for fulfilling the need for realistic thing permanently.

I definitely disagree with one thing, I don't think it is fair to compare this tire to iRacing infamous tires. They are more into that side, but still nothing like it. And I'd even suggest they could be just a little more towards iRacing side still. Why ? Because it does slide bit much, and I think it could go with being bit less prone into sliding. And thats exactly where iRacing tires are different - they are very hard to slide, this tire isn't (although harder than ones before, and I'd argue very much close to realistic). iRacing tires are hard to slide, they resist sliding up to much further point, and the window at which it is switching from sliding to griping back and forth is very thin, and thats why it is harder, arguably than it is in reality with many of iR cars to drive at the limit. The tires of this BMW are not that difficult to overdrive, what is difficult is to not overdrive them. I need to know more about this car and RL DTM cars to paint better picture, but I think it could be that it could use bit more longer lasting stability before peaking, although for a tire that will usually mean faster more violent drop off over the limit. The irony is that higher peaking more stable tire in this way will actually end up more people in the walls, although more slippery tire will be generally more annoying, less sporty, but safer and easier to keep up with and more friendly for mere mortals non-aliens. I guess to find in where between these points given tires stand is a bit of an art, no way there will be ever that much data for every variable to eliminate any sort of guesstimating.
 
One thing that strikes me as odd, or perhaps just something I don't really understand, is how little mechanical grip this car has vs aero grip.

Using the example of going through one of the fast sweepers in the latter half of Spa. In the BMW M2 CS, I can throw the car into the corner at over 200km/h with pretty rough inputs, and the car will still be very stable. I'd have to do something royally stupid to spin.

With the M4, with DRS off and as close to a steady even throttle I can manage while keeping DRS off, even breath on the steering wrong at these speeds through the same corner and it's an instant spin.

Understood that there is a lot of different charateristics about the car, but I though a light car with beefy rubber and I assume still lots of undercar aero, with even throttle input, should be able to round a corner as fast as a minimal aero car with very agressive inputs.

I do think that many of the new cars in rF2 (with something like the 911 Cup being an exception), are too forgiving. Lift off throttle mid corner and just generally very sloppy inputs are not punished with loss of control. Perhaps that's the way the GT3/GTE handle in real life and if so it is boring with minimal consequences.

I prefer the edgier tyre, but maybe it is a bit too low grip.
 
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Kelju_K said:
Why S397 doesn't have one? Dont know? But maybe thats why RFRO server has had people every night, when S397 server has been empty...
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First of all our CS does not support whatever session that runs 24/7 BUT we do have
1. A server in matchmaker looping P, Q and then a short R
2. In CS we have a 2 hour qualifying session every 3 hours
3 In CS we have a 30 min race every 2 hours

At least everyone is able to setup a server exactly how they want it. The CS will never be able to replace everyones specific choice on whatever they want to do at that specific time :) So its great that this league can run some hotlaps and get some exposure dont you think?

PS. the BMW comp in CS had more users than the hotlap server, but yes maybe there is too many races, but that is what people asked for :)
 
Jimmi Allison said:
First of all our CS does not support whatever session that runs 24/7 BUT we do have
1. A server in matchmaker looping P, Q and then a short R
2. In CS we have a 2 hour qualifying session every 3 hours
3 In CS we have a 30 min race every 2 hours

At least everyone is able to setup a server exactly how they want it. The CS will never be able to replace everyones specific choice on whatever they want to do at that specific time :) So its great that this league can run some hotlaps and get some exposure dont you think?

PS. the BMW comp in CS had more users than the hotlap server, but yes maybe there is too many races, but that is what people asked for :)
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Thank you for your reply, and apologies if i came out condescending. Not my intention.

And i have nothing negative to say about your competition system at all. Definitely not too many races.

But i still root for this kind of hotlap table system. As it doesn't have any schedule you have to follow. You could just hop on the server, and do your laps, when ever it suits you. We all have enough schedule in our lives.

When AMS 1 was released, shortly after they added this hotlap system, that was very popular. It had the option to share the setup you made your lap, with others. This is basically what i'm after, for several reasons:


#1 Sometimes you feel fast, but without any reference to others, it's hard to tell. Like i said in my earlier post, because of this reference, i have been able to improve my laptime with more than 2 seconds. Even when i felt that i did ok initially.

#2 im sure there are many who would just like to see how fast others are in general, what are the alien times, and so on.

#3 The setup sharing option would be very useful for people who's free time is limited, or who struggle with setups due lack of experience. If one could find a person in that table, (who chooses to share his setups) that he finds makes setups that suit his driving style/preference, he could always look his setups from the database.

4# last but definitely not least, this kind of system could be very beneficial data collection tool to help you in your development work. You could see if the fastest laptimes are made with setups, that drive anything like you intended them to drive. There could be even another "tick box", [share setup with development team] if someone wishes to stay competitive against their rivals, but wishes to help you in your work.
(Altough, you could propably collect the data by some fine print in the end user license agreement, that nobody ever read :D, but i'm sure most would consent if you asked).


You could use this data in further development, and blocking (exploit) holes in the physics, and you could also use the information, to analyze with you partners, if the fastest times are made with even remotely similar setups and car behavior, as they are made in the real world.

Thanks again for you time and attention to the forum.
 
GTClub_wajdi said:
I’m the only one not liking this car?!
I’m not taking about being fast because even with AI at 110% I’m faster but this car has no grip at all . With these slick large tires and aero package damn this should have a lot of grip. Even with hot tires you are always on the edge. I can’t believe this car is realistic as many of you are claiming .
I don’t find that there is a grip difference between hot and cold tires…. I hope that Studio397 won’t ruin the GT3 and GTE cars with these tires and make them undrivable as the old ISI cars and stop it with difficult to drive means more realistic. All GT drivers confirm that GT cars aren’t that difficult to drive.
Click to expand...

I love the car ,the sound,the perfect 3D programming but it is very difficult to drive around low speed corners . The Finn here (Kelju ) recommend a special techniqie to drive throuigh corners with to both pedals .I am too stupid to do it . Now I know why Finns are the best Rallye Drivers in the world . When I watch the videos from DTM here it looked not so difficult to drive ????
 
Hey, why can't I make rear flap to work, is it some new UI thing ?

Saying that this car is undrivable and also saying that older ISI content is undrivable, is one way of saying that you can not drive. But I understand if when modern gamers mind faces real difficulties it refuses to believe. IT is a bubble gamers have been living for decades now since game designers learned how to make most money from games.

This being said, I can not enjoy this car with default setup, it is too easily overdriven to me too. I need slower steering, softer chassis, less rear toe to make it slow enough for how slow I am myself. Not less than default rear wing, otherwise it is too hard not to slide it. And being unable not to slide it too much I am unable to keep tires alive for longer. It is suspicious how fast abrasive wear is, and I know due to modding that abrassive wear affects amount of grip during slides, at the same time it makes sense to loose so much rubber with that much skating. Hot vs cold temps does really seem not to have much of effect, or I am just too busy to notice it, but tires seems to be slidey just the same all the time, and more as abrasive wear goes under 90% and bellow that, which is few Monza laps in.

In Monza I do feel comfortable and immersed and can almost not overdrive at ~1'43'5 pace, can't not overdrive when going in 1'42, and getting bellow 1'42 requires abuse. Normally I'd drive at ~1'43 and be chill about it, car feel true to life the way it drives, just perhaps bit eager to slide much still with friendly setup. But it messes with mind knowing that you are still five seconds off-pace. But maybe I am just slow like that and perhaps loose a bit due to not working flap. Sliding does seem too constant, but can't ignore skill factor.

I wonder how it's pace matches real life. Perhaps this tire is still too much skating, I find myself a lot at excessive yaw angles. It is not so hard to drive, but it is weird to be already at such instability when being 4 seconds off pace. Well perhaps just because lack of skill ? Perhaps it is normal with moderate amount of rear wing downforce and with qualification engine mixture. Perhaps it is not the best car for preview of newer tire logic because how brutal this car is. At the same time this tire is not a miracle either, it still has that skate thing going on, but on the other side is iRacing anti sliding logic, which perhaps is not that wrong untill it isn't overdone, but apparently much unloved by simracers/gamers because it makes stuff more serious.

For example, if this cars rF2 tire had stiffer bristle springs it would make it more - iRacing like, and i see people complainign about this tires edgyness already. Let me say this - you are asking for more widely distributed sliding. Because if you get tire that slides less, you just get tire that slides harder and later, because otherwise it would have too much total grip. Choose one: forgiveness and predictable but annoying sliding vs unforgiving and less predictable, but also less often present sliding ?
 
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