Released Released | BMW M4 Class 1 2021

mantasisg said:
I don't like that I have no idea what stiffness ARB settings provide, but I like that there are many options of them.
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This

It would be cool if add some documentation on the forum or in the game (with the new GUI ;) ) about this.
And this problem is not the only car that has so many options, with the Formula E and all Tatuus the same thing happens. :)
 
Probably i'll go against the flow here but i don't get the double standards. I can master the car and go decently fast, so i have no real issue. However, i see that the tires are really constantly on the edge specially when on corner exit where you just go slight outside and i'm not even referring to grass but just going beyond curbs but still away from grass.

Honestly, although in different degree and way, but they kind of remind me the old and extremely criticized iRacing ice tires. People have bashed them for years, some people here was even proud to share video of some RL drivers (eg. nicki thiim) who used to bash them saying that they felt like they were too much on edge and literally you have little margin area, almost binary. Yet here we are praising a similar tire like a revolution.

When it comes to GTE vs this BMW I find both tires off. I mean the car is fun to drive, but whether tires are cold or hot they pretty much slide easily in most condition which some are okay but others are simply a bit exaggerated just like iRacing tires (specially the old ones).

I mean rather than having them behaving more realistically (eg. more realistic temperature window - like feeling them build grip up as they get more into temperature window), this resemble more an very artificial difficulty. This is the problem of most video games, most of time rather than try to mimic the real source of difficulty that real drivers has to deal with, they simply add artificial difficulty.

I might be wrong but this is my take so far.
 
I feel like this car (AI opponents) should be a bit more optimized, even only with a bit above 10 AI after a race start the frame rates drop. In other cars they are rock solid.
 
I got some ISI vibes from the car too, as others have pointed out. Also one of the best default setups in the whole franchise.
The tire model is definitely step in the right direction. Understeer is more prominent now with higher slip angles. Stops aiding the turn with lower slip angle than before, and aids less in general. Very nice.

I feel the previous tire model was made easier to make the game more acceptable, and it kinda worked as many people felt the famous "rf2 connection to the car" with them from the first try. One now infamous youtuber for example ;)
This was not possible in ISI times, and basically everybody new struggled with the setups and the game felt excruciatingly hard.
The easier tires approach opened the can of worms tough in form of exploits that are now almost as famous as the game it self is unfortunately.

This car is very good example of, that the same rf2 instant connection to the car from first try can be achieved with good default setup, and at the same time keep the tires less forgiving.
I definitely love the way things are going now, and i hope that this trend is pushed even further, as i think there are still room to go more in this direction.

The car is little heavy on the performance side tough. Had to drop MSAA from x8 to x4, and lower texture quality from full to high to keep 90fps on Nordschleife (reverb G2), where as GTE's, GT3's, and P-cup allow them maxed out.
The impact on visual quality with lowering these settings is acceptable however, but clearly shows that the new car is quite a lot heavier on the gpu. It looks very good tough. Propably best looking cockpit so far, so the perf hit could be summarized as somewhat acceptable i guess. One can always wish more optimization tough.

Overall this is very good car. Goes to my top sim cars for sure. And that it was free, is really something else. I feel pampered, and that "you shouldn't have" -feeling in my heart.

So thank you very very much, for this free awesome experience.
 
williang83 said:
Probably i'll go against the flow here but i don't get the double standards. I can master the car and go decently fast, so i have no real issue. However, i see that the tires are really constantly on the edge specially when on corner exit where you just go slight outside and i'm not even referring to grass but just going beyond curbs but still away from grass.

Honestly, although in different degree and way, but they kind of remind me the old and extremely criticized iRacing ice tires. People have bashed them for years, some people here was even proud to share video of some RL drivers (eg. nicki thiim) who used to bash them saying that they felt like they were too much on edge and literally you have little margin area, almost binary. Yet here we are praising a similar tire like a revolution.

When it comes to GTE vs this BMW I find both tires off. I mean the car is fun to drive, but whether tires are cold or hot they pretty much slide easily in most condition which some are okay but others are simply a bit exaggerated just like iRacing tires (specially the old ones).

I mean rather than having them behaving more realistically (eg. more realistic temperature window - like feeling them build grip up as they get more into temperature window), this resemble more an very artificial difficulty. This is the problem of most video games, most of time rather than try to mimic the real source of difficulty that real drivers has to deal with, they simply add artificial difficulty.

I might be wrong but this is my take so far.
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I also saw someone mention that cold vs hot tire was much more apparent and I can't really see much of that, just all around the same until the tires wear, and pretty fast I might add.

I've not been seeing that many double standards and if iRacing behaved like this - there's still a lot of play in these tires - iRacing would probably not be criticized as it was. I bet iRacing was really more, slide and you are out, while here you can slide, snap oversteer and still catch it with enough precision.

Where I was expecting to see more double standards was from the people who defended the drifty driving from aliens as being "normal" but then coming and seeing this tire and changing there minds just like that, but pretty sure they will understand that the Devs - if honest - went the route of being more realistic and a slick feeling much more on edge. Tires like the ones at GT3 and GTE are even more sluggish and forgiving when one jumps from one car to another. This DTM is also pretty stiff, so I don't know how much that is also helping making the tires feel more immidiate.

I think cold tires should be more apparent still, at the very least. And get us cars updated with this but compounds that actually last much more.
 
Another thing is that this new tire seems to be a lot less flexible! I'm actually missing some of the flex that is present in GTE BMW - for example. There is a little bit that I think has been taking of this tires... Just a little bit more flex on the contact patch to feel the car rotating a little more on corners... Maybe it's down to setup, but pressures are 130Kpa already, so in a sense I should feel it more. I think a little more flex would not work in detriment to how more or less unforgiving the tire can be, just make the moment of contact patch maximum flex a bigger drop off then the ones in GTE, where I think everyone who ranted about it wanted. Now I get a feel of more "wooden tires" if I'm honest.

I also think that going from 100 to 80 is the same wear as it is for a GTE car soft going from 100 to say, 92/87.

Edit:

After messing with Camber (think its too low as it is) I think it's actually acting the way I wished for, so I guess we can forget what I said.

Yeah, after also adding back some more mechanical grip (too stiff a suspension as default) I find the car more enjoyable and the tires are feeling even better. You got to try it if you still didnt mess around with setups a lot.
 
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I’ve had a very quick shot in the BMW at the new Monza offline and had two odd experiences that might be worth keeping an eye out for (running under the ‘previous release’ due to build number mismatches with our race servers.

The first ‘incident’ occurred during a spin at the second chicane - I lost the back end and ended up heading towards the left hand barrier. I automatically pulled both gear paddles to shift into neutral in preparation for recovering to the track just before striking the barrier (invincibility On, I think).

The issue was that the engine sound dropped out (everything went silent). As I was sure I’d entered neutral with the engine still running, I tried shifting into reverse and sho’nuff, the engine *was* still running and the sound came back seemingly at the same time.

The second issue occurred pulling out of the pit box after quitting back to the garage - for the first dozen car lengths or so, I suffered from extreme ‘gritty’ vibration through the FFB. I stopped the car (still in the pit lane) and then pulled away again and the vibration disappeared. I’d normally put such vibration down to inappropriate FFB settings - except that it didn’t occur on my first foray onto track and cleared up after stopping the car (min FFB torque is zero, by the way, as I run an SC2 Pro DD wheel).

I’ll keep an eye on (any) reoccurrences.
 
Speaking of tires lasting. I also noticed rather fast wear. I was not driving extremely fast, but I was sliding tires frequently at my 1'42 Monza laps in naturally progressing track. I was getting around 1% off rear tires every lap. Didn't accumulate too many laps yet, around 10-20. I didn't notice tires giving up. I wonder at what percentage they give up, because wear percentage is not the same as performance degradation, they can keep performance quite a bit down the wear slope depending on how they are modeled. Quick abrasion wear also adds up to the way these tires feel sudden to slip and grip up, thats beauty of rF2 - rubber grip to tarmac is just as meaningful as rubber grip to the the rest of the tire.

Overall I love the tire, didn't feel too difficult, while at the same time keepin me truly on the toes. Aligns to my reality observations and overall tire logic.

 
mantasisg said:
Speaking of tires lasting. I also noticed rather fast wear. I was not driving extremely fast, but I was sliding tires frequently at my 1'42 Monza laps in naturally progressing track. I was getting around 1% off rear tires every lap. Didn't accumulate too many laps yet, around 10-20. I didn't notice tires giving up. I wonder at what percentage they give up, because wear percentage is not the same as performance degradation, they can keep performance quite a bit down the wear slope depending on how they are modeled. Quick abrasion wear also adds up to the way these tires feel sudden to slip and grip up, thats beauty of rF2 - rubber grip to tarmac is just as meaningful as rubber grip to the the rest of the tire.

Overall I love the tire, didn't feel too difficult, while at the same time keepin me truly on the toes. Aligns to my reality observations and overall tire logic.

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Yes, I feel the same and I did wonder at the start of it all if wear was not on the same percentage that other S397 tires were and I did went for a long session and they mantain much metter performance when going to the yellow bars!

I can't wait for this tires to be adapted to other cars.man!

I think I'll even refuse to play with those cars anymore until they are updated.
 
Having spent more time with it on the Nords, I find it mind-blowing.

- It's incredibly stable and glued to the road in high speed sections, including high speed curves. There's such sections at the Nords that you can take flat out in 6th gear, for example from Hoheneichen to Arember corner (map).
- Likewise, there are brutal braking zones from 6th to 2th or 1th gear. These are rather tricky because if you mis-shift of shift not at the proper speed, it's likely game over as you will lose the car and it is not recoverable. Weight transfer during this massive braking (for example before the Arember corner) is really well done with the car becoming a bit unstable but not the point of loosing control (if braking properly)
- 1st and 2nd gear and corners that make use of them are tricky: too much (re)acceleration and you will spin
- car can be pushed super hard but it's really challenging (as it should). And when you think you were pushing hard, you realize that you can push even harder. It will be interesting to watch aliens lap times at the Nords!
I have yet to complete a full clean lap there while pushing quite a bit, but I'm getting close as I have more confidence into the possibilities of the car
- accelerating on kerbs can be... slidey
- generally, the car does not allow much mistakes, especially at lower or mid speeds
- to conclude, an incredibly immersive and demanding car, especially at the Nords
 
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With smooth FFB at 4 it removes the constant grainy feeling, first time I don't use 0.

Edit :fixed, I'm back to 0.
 
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I love the tire wear. hopefully it wont get nerfed in the future.
I mean, conserving tires is one task for every driver irl, and i have hoped that this would become more of a trend in simracing aswell. So far online racing has been pretty much full blast all the time, practically zero concern for the tire wear. In every title, and every car pretty much.
Hopefully this is something we see more in the future. I truly welcome this aspect of real life racing to simracing.
 
Kelju_K said:
I love the tire wear. hopefully it wont get nerfed in the future.
I mean, conserving tires is one task for every driver irl, and i have hoped that this would become more of a trend in simracing aswell. So far online racing has been pretty much full blast all the time, practically zero concern for the tire wear. In every title, and every car pretty much.
Hopefully this is something we see more in the future. I truly welcome this aspect of real life racing to simracing.
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Conserving tires in F1 is a thing, but in GT, not so much. Yes you still need to behave but we can't be doing Endurance racing with cars that run off their tires in less than 20 minutes. Remember it was Michelin that said the tire deg at the Virtual 24hr event was too big of a drop-off. I'm all for managing tires, if that means softs will last at least one full tank of fuel and the mediums/hards can double or triple.
 
davehenrie said:
Conserving tires in F1 is a thing, but in GT, not so much. Yes you still need to behave but we can't be doing Endurance racing with cars that run off their tires in less than 20 minutes. Remember it was Michelin that said the tire deg at the Virtual 24hr event was too big of a drop-off. I'm all for managing tires, if that means softs will last at least one full tank of fuel and the mediums/hards can double or triple.
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Yeah, tire wear doesn't have to be so apparently so fast to be something to care about, because thst depends on how long a race is. People have told me that this cars pitted for like one time in a 60 minutes race for new tires, so it's not that bad. This tires also don't really align with how bad the grip gets once you pass a certain percentage of tire - GT tires and such, softs at least, start to feel skittish even at under 95% tire remaining, and this tires start to feel like that much later, so it's rather misleading to compare the rate of wear by that. Judge the wear by feel and you will see these tires have a good life in them.
 
that wear is a bit fucked up and I'm driving like Button
even if performance drop happen little bit later it feels like little bit too much
maybe it is like that in DTM - mean they need to pit after half race because TIRES ARE GONE like in Formula but this is definitely not my fav approach to making racing compounds
 
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