Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kevin Karas, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    OT: have you seen what @The Iron Wolf is doing with GTR 2? It now has VR and also stuff added to the base game, see the Crew Chief forum for details.
     
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  2. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    oh definitely, keep playing different sims/games. I did that too before settling for rf2.
    the more you play the closer you are to make conclusions for yourself.
     
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  3. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    Exactly. That's my problem with rF2. I came to PC after more than 10 years on consoles. This year I played any possible racing game and was rather happy. rF2 was my last test, because the UI was a bit strange for newcomer and some settings were thru JSON only. So I get when somebody says UI is not the best but I don't think it's a problem. OK, it's not a game for casuals for sure but who needs them? Who likes forum full of non-sense stuff from casuals? Who cares what they think about price? :D After I tried rF2 for few hours I knew it's the game I have never played. It's so strange but it's true. I started and never ended. There is no point in playing other games too much for me now. They are cool but they are not rF2. That's the power of comparison.

    And yes, even rF2 has some problems but I am not spoiled and can enjoy anything good in the game. I play games for the good in them and don't care about the bad too much and rF2 has so many good things.
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Be careful what you are calling "drifts". :D I did this mistake and irresponsibly called one massive slide from one video "a drift", and got massive downvotes from reddit normies, even though it wasn't even a focus of a subject lol

    There is one super simple trick (for car and sim physics devs) how to make all cars extra easy, or just more easy to drift depending what is the set point. Just lower grip differences between non-sliding and sliding, or between driving on the limit and over the limit. As usual main suspects are aero and tires. Easy aero will be rather balanced + ideally producing downforce, and it will be so with any rake, any car yaw angle (oversteer angle). Easy tires will not have big or fast grip reduction due to fully sliding contact patch, they can also be made to not loose much grip and drop to develop slowly spread in time. There are few options for tires to be made easy, to have unrealistically high sliding friction and realistic static friction, but it is bad choice as it leads to too fast laptimes. Another easy "easy drift physics" technique is to have too high sliding friction, but unrealistically too low static friction. This way devs get rather friendly physics, bit difficult not to shred tires, but easy shredding. The worst trade-off of having wrong tire friction composure is that it spoils car simulation from its very foundation, even if everything else is going to be perfectly simulated.

    On a funny note, I still haven't tried it. But I think it would be fun to try making a car in a sim, that would actually have MORE grip when sliding, than while actually developing normal static friction. Or in other words, tire slip curve would never drop. It would probably lead to driving when the more 90degs angle you could hit the apexes, the faster your laptimes would be. It would be a treat for drifters haha.

    Speaking of good front grip feel, believe it or not, but weight of FFB gives different perception of front grip. Even if front grip is going be the same, it will always FEEL less with very light steering. Some of the physical parameters that directly influences steering weight apart grip is caster angle and steering ratio. More caster and the faster you can turn front wheels makes steering heavier. I have always felt that in AC there is something strange about how front feels in almost all cars, I think it is just that they all are made with rather big caster, and steering on the quick side, and none has it adjustable in setups, and particular feel of AC is amplified by its simple tire model.
     
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  5. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    Sure, it's still my casual view :D It's probably better to use more precise terms.

    Exactly, that's the problem with AMS2. Difference between grip and no grip is so small. I like that style because AMS1 and rF2 are similar but AMS2 went too far, I guess, or I tried bad cars.

    Yeah, high sliding friction and low static one is Need for speed :D Grid is very strange too, there is probably some step down but not much.

    Higher sliding friction is called rally on a dirt :D But it has some end for sure. We need to test it somehow. Is it possible thru rF2 mods?

    Maybe, something in AC doesn't feel right. No time to test everything...


    BUT what I found interesting. Some discussion about grip, peak grip, slip angle, etc. And there some guy told that some real driver found after peak grip there is no sudden drop off of a grip. And that's the biggest PROBLEM! Why some games has big drop off? Or exists different tires with different physics? Why rF2 should be real and drop off is very gentle? Why R3E and iRacing is different? What is real? What is purpose of life then?
     
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  6. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/handling-in-gtr2-versus-rfactor.182467/#post-3164192
     
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    It is unclear what exactly "no sudden drop off" means to that particular guy. With what car, what tires and in what circumstances. There certainly should be ways to set the car slowly into over the limit state. For example being slow with throttle application, not steering in too suddenly, being good with brakes... in other words the driver is capable to dampen a lot of things that happens with the car by setting it more slowly into extreme transients, and feeling where are the extremes.... Anticipating counter actions over the extremes, such as catchign oversteer... It is very subjective what "sudden" means.

    It is good question why some games has more hardcore drop-off. One comes in mind - iRacing. It is just my speculation, but I came with a theory that due having more challenging cars it takes more time for people to master them, in iRacing you pay for time you play by subscriptions... So harder cars makes people play more time, thus iRacing generates more income. Another aspect is simply what kind of people is in community and simply taking over particular niche.

    In my opinion rF2 simulation ranges from too easy to just right, and in rare occasions, in some circumstances rF2 is too difficult or just not right. Also rF2 does not make money from subscriptions, so having people to move from one car to other constantly is better business. And rF2 like iRacing is also belonging to niche of hardcore simracers, not so much ordinary gamers.

    What is real? What is purpose of life then? These are best questions, I study answers to them every day :D
     
  8. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    @mantasisg True, I am not sure what exactly should it be. At least it's the first sign I read somewhere somebody cares about drop off. If I ask why R3E is so different (iRacing is even worse), nobody answers like R3E is the same like everything else. It's not. It's pretty clear one game has sudden drop off for every car and another one does not. It's just my casual view. Real rubber should behave some way. If you go after peak limit, it should be able to handle some force, probably lower one. I can't test it at home but I would guess developers should know exactly how rubber/tire works :D And still we have completely different behavior. I prefer rF2 behavior.

    That's an interesting idea. Hardcore drop off is really much harder and I don't like that games too much. It's OK to play but it's not fun. You need to know everything before you turn - speed, angle, etc. It takes much more time to test it or going rather slow. From game perspective it makes sense but it's hard to believe nobody would notice it's not real :D I don't know, maybe some tires are so different than others? Hard to believe but I don't understand those differences then. It's not about subscription, I hope.

    I agree rF2 is rather easy and it's awesome if you push hard. For normal cruising, it's rather easy. If you push hard, rF2 opens all magic. Driving car on an edge in rF2 is so good. Maybe not with everything, I didn't test all yet.

    Nice, so you are the right person for answering all questions about tires. We need to start with smaller steps :D
     
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  9. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    For GT cars it’s generally true, but depends on a car. Try to push Skippy or Formula Vee.
     
  10. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    I love Formula Vee! It's better than in AMS to me. It's true it's never easy. Overall you can catch anything if you react fast which is rather easy. Maybe some cars are a bit different, I tried mostly official and newer cars.
     
  11. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    For me the summary is very simple and short: This game doesn't work. With every single setting it keeps getting purple lag spikes (GPU related) in VR with the Reverb G2/3080. ZERO support or comment on this subject from the developers unfortunately, so probably it will always stay like that. Such a pity because this seems to be one of the best sims.
     
  12. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    Yesterday when I played I really felt like there is really some high yaw inertia and it's very good. I am not sure about other games but it adds some dynamics. What I remember, it's not so much in other games.

    No info at Discord? I don't do Discord because it doesn't make much sense but it could work for you.
     
  13. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    I'm fairly confident thay purple one is for physics, so it is CPU related.
    Green bar is for GPU.
     
  14. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Yes, indeed this is the reason of the colors.
    Green = Graphics
    Purple = Physics
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yes, but it's a CPU graph. And the issue is discussed more elsewhere.
     
  16. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    My fault... I wasn't clear indeed: I am using fpsVR... so it's GPU/VR/WMR/RF2/Nvidia related for 100% sure (fpsVR is very clear about that). CPU usage is not more then ~20%, GPU usage with my current (unplayable) settings is not more then ~40-45%.
     
  17. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    But 20 % on CPU could mean one core only, right?
     
  18. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    Yes per core indeed. My point is that no matter how low I configured the RF2 settings (so low that I have such extremly low gpu/cpu usage...): the game keeps having huge stutters(which are seen as large purple lag spikes in fpsVR). It's impossible to get this game working with an 100% stable 90fps with the Reverb G2/WMR/3080 in VR. This while all other supported WMR games run flawless in very high settings at 90fps+ constant framerate on the same machine(AMS/ACC/AC etc.).
     
  19. Magus

    Magus Registered

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    It's not only the G2, I have the same issue with the G1. The spikes are frametime and from what appears on fpsVR it looks like a CPU bottleneck with my o'cd 9900k & RTX3090 as my GPU is rarely utlised beyond 72% but I find that hard to believe (my CPU usage rarely goes above 58%). So the interaction between rF2, WMR drivers, Nvidia drivers, & SteamVR is throttling the GPU usage in rF2 for me. I have given up trying to understand it and trying to fix it. This means that rF2 has become a hotlapping sim for me, which is unfortunate as it was my goto sim. @TurboHenk you don't happen to have an Asus motherboard do you?
     
  20. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    Thx for your reply. I had an Asus motherboard with this same setup(z390), but now I have an MSI motherboard(also z390) but the issue remains exactly the same. So don't bother switching it. I have an 9700k@5ghz btw.

    "I have given up trying to understand it and trying to fix it." Me too. I really tried everything. The saddest thing is: Studio 397 ALSO gave up, but I think that they didn't even try to solve it. This is the worst developer in terms of communication that I ever experienced in my long gaming experience history. This issue is so far spread on this forum, but ZERO comment from Studio 397 and they keep selling the game as "Windows Mixed Reality compatible" but it CLEARLY isn't. It indeed only works for hotlapping, but I'm not a fan of that, so I'm not able to play this game at all since I bought it. And I couldn't get a refund because I spend too many time trying to fix this issue. So I feel scammed by Studio 397 since they simply ignore everyone with this issue and also keep telling everybody that it's compatible with Windows Mixed Reality(by keeping this info on the Steam page).
     
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