Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kevin Karas, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    It's unplayable (for me) with 45fps, I tried it after reading your comments on this forum. It's really REALLY terrible, I don't understand how you're able to enjoy the game with these settings. You really are an exception, and so is your friend, 60hz with the G2 is watching constant flickering, impossible to play with. You also don't manage to get it running STABLE at 90fps as you said. With an 3080/Reverb G2 it is EASY to get this game running at 90fps with low GPU and CPU usage BUT because of the inconsistent lag spikes (which you just acknowledged yourself! so yes it IS incompatible) it's not stable at 90fps. This while even the heavy ACC and AMS2 at much MUCH HIGHER settings run with ZERO lag spikes stable @ 90fps at the same system. So no, you are not correct, this game is incompatible with WMR. That's very clear, 45FPS is not a "fix". Reprojection/motion smoothing is also not a fix, it's just a way to let this game stutter even more. It should be possible to run this game at such a machine at least at low settings and low resolution at 90fps stable. I think that the devs are thinking the same like you. With this way of thinking this major issue will never get solved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  2. Andy Bonar

    Andy Bonar Registered

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    You can keep adding your hatred of RF2 on every single thread that you hijack. Youre obviously not interested in how to get it working for you.

    It is compatible with WMR, i have 3 friends who use the G2 and do not cry about it like you are doing.
    Two of them do not like 45, so they use 90 fps. They adjust the graphics settings in other areas to compensate for this, but they maintain 90 fps comfortably.

    As I said, I like the eye candy. I too have AMS 2 and yes, it seems a lot better optimised, which is why i try to get my gfx settings as high as I can in RF2 and therefore the way to do that is use 45 fps.

    You are misquoting me on the 90 FPS thing. I did not say I cannot run it at 90 fps. I can get it to run stable at 90 fps, it wouldnt be a problem. But if i want the level of eye candy on that I like, I know its not going to stay at 90.

    If you are expecting to run rf2 at 100% resolution, at 90fps with everything maxed out, you are living in dreamland.
    Maybe youre expectations need adjusting. Maybe stop spending so much time looking at FPS VR and watching the graphs, and see how it actually looks when you are driving. People have tried to help you out, and all you do is criticise them and of course the devs.

    If you really cant run the game on low resolution, with low settings at 90fps, you have something wrong with your system.

    If there is one big issue I would like looking at is the visible cars issue, as that appears to be a known FPS killer.
     
  3. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    So this is what you call a fanboy... ? You have many friends that play rF2 and have a G2... So one runs it like you on 45fps?? And the other on 60hz??? And 2 others on 90fps? And you have zero friends that have an G2 with lag spikes in rF2? Unbelievable statistics. I'm not the only one with these issues, you can find them all over this forum! But all your friends don't! For some reason your comment sounds pretty unbelievable.

    As I told you, I have 40-45% GPU usage and even less CPU usage(everything green in fpsVR, until the purple spikes come, never even orange). So you don't think that I lowered my settings enough? With such extremly low frametimes/gpu usage it should be impossible to get lag spikes. Normal games get lag spikes in VR after 90-95% gpu usage. I run ACC at high settings @ 90FPS, I run AMS2 at even higher settings @ 90FPS, with some changes I even run DR2 (which is incompatible with WMR) @ 90FPS. All with zero framedrops and then you suggest that it is my system? I tried every little tweak that could be found on this forum, nothing makes the lag spikes go away. No old drivers, no player.json setting, no reinstall etc.etc. nothing.

    Yes the dev's of this game should respond to such huge issues. If you don't see it as an issue and prefer to run this game at 45FPS, go ahead enjoy yourself. But don't tell us that it's a great thing to run a sim racing title @ 45fps and that this game is 100% compatible with WMR. It clearly isn't.
     
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  4. Andy Bonar

    Andy Bonar Registered

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    Believe what you like.
    Fanboy?
    Come back and talk when you've reached puberty.
     
  5. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    This is from your own thread on this forum:
    So you just made it all up. You have/had the same problem. You said it yourself: "Well, after spending endless hours trying to resolve, I give up. Nothing changes, no matter what you do."

    Then you came up with your "fix": "Well, ive kind of sorted it now. The solution ive found is to force the game to use 45fps with motion projection in steam vr. Makes no sense at all though, as now even with all settings on max, im only using 60% gpu and around 30% cpu."

    So why do you even argue with me on this point? You clearly said it yourself that I am right on every point that I made.

    You're just happy that with many many effort; you found a way to play this game which is acceptable for YOU. But not for others, nobody likes 45fps and reprojection/motion smoothing; it is terrible on the G2. It shouldn't be necessary to use such features with an card like the 3080. And especially not with everything on low and 30% resolution or something. It's clearly bugged, you stated it yourself so many times. Why even argue about it? I really don't get it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  6. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    Turbo :

    rF2 is ssooo bad : don't play it + don't waste and looose your time to bash rF2 + play to your other favorite sims.

    Simple?
     
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  7. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    No rF2 is awesome! But it's simply bugged for many WMR users and for that reason unplayable.

    If I thought that this game is so bad, then why would I do so much to get this issue under the attention of the dev's? :)

    I really really want to play this awesome game. I love the content, the physics, the way it drives etc.
    But I'm an VR man, I cannot go back to 2D... I don't understand why the dev's are never replying on such major flaws, it makes me indeed very irritated. They should at least give their point of view on this subject, but they simply refuse it. Reiza/Kunos would never let it get this far, they should already have shared their point of view on such an issue a long long time ago.
     
  8. Andy Bonar

    Andy Bonar Registered

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    I'm not going waste any more time with you after this reply.

    Yes, I have had problems with RF2, I found my solution, and am very happy with the way it works for me. Not sure how long ago I posted that, and to be honest I dont really care. What matters is that it has improved massively.
    For all I know, i could run it at 90 fps with the same settings....I just dont bother changing it as I dont see much difference between that and 45. And no, Im not making that up, that is my individual perception. We all have different eyesight etc etc before you come back on that.

    And I use FPSVR when updating gfx drivers to check how they work, and my GPU and CPU both use a lot higher than that now, up in the 85 to 90% on the gpu and over 70 on the cpu, dependant on car/track load obviously.
    Improvement's have no doubt been made to the sim, which has reflected in its performance.

    Seriously, go and play AMS2 if it works for you and give it a rest.
     
  9. TurboHenk

    TurboHenk Registered

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    I'm happy for you that you're happy with reprojection/motion smoothing/45fps/stutters and sharp gfx in rF2.
    That's not sim racing for me. For me it's only enjoyable at 90fps with zero framedrops.

    No. I keep doing my best to get this major bug under the attention of the dev's. You're not in the position to stop me and to tell me that I have to play an other game.

    That you don't remember what you posted on this forum says enough about yourself. I still don't understand why you started the argument while you clearly have the same issues yourself(so that makes your comment about all your friends even more unbelievable). You simply accepted to live with it, I don't, it's as simple as that.
     
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  10. Andy Bonar

    Andy Bonar Registered

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    Jeez, grow up. How old are you?

    If you ever get it running well for you, maybe you will look back at your posts and see things change.
    Opinions change.
    I dont get stutters by the way. What I do get is a sim that looks great, plays well, and I get lots of enjoyment from.
     
  11. Binny

    Binny Registered

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    IMHO fanboys of sims make it very hard to get change. Its like the companies listen to the 5 star rating and don't bother listening to the rest of the ratings, Fanboys are louder and get heard more. Somehow the rest have to get them to listen.
     
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  12. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    Not WMR thing. just G2 resolution thing, and poor optimization on rf2 side. Other cars on track is a known issue, and nothing is done about it unfortunately.
    I get good performance for my G2 if im alone in the track, OR on with lighter (perf) taxiing cars like porsche cup, and on light track, like portugal. Even 15 AI cars is possible while having SS @100% with 6800xt. Wouldn't expect 3080 to be any worse.

    Im very much against poor optimization, as i think it's lazy and goes against EVERY engineering principle.
    Only PC game devs think making something better, is an excuse for making it worse at the same time.
    Every other engineering field would think this approach is nowhere near acceptable.

    It's like, say a guy named Frank, drives a car, that has no AC, airbags, and has old cam operated windows is gonna buy a new car.
    At the dealers he's shown a new car that has all the bells and whistles, but the dealer says: all this comes at a cost you know mr. Frank.
    Having the AC, airbags, cup holders, electronic windows and mirrors etc. will make the car use 50% more fuel.
    would Frank go for it? Hell no! He would still sweat in his car and roll the windows by hand, and just tighten the seatbelt. "fuck them new cars, 50% more fuel can kiss my behind!"


    Console game devs have to make progress without sacrificing performance, as there are no room for it. Yet they manage to pull it off, during the life time of that generation console.
    We PC gamers, simmers especially are just expected to buy more POWER. regardless if there even exits any.
    Not saying progress shouldn't have a price in this genre, but usually it's just overlooked so totally that it ends up making as much damage to the game, as what ever the added stuff could possibly bring to it.

    And we all know pc sim devs love to add that stuff, eye candy mostly, that they like, that no one really asked for.
    AND.
    When there are perf problems, in sims, as there almost always is. Those cries hardly ever get heard, or at least pretty much nothing is ever done to it.

    But this is the world we live in...
    Mean while @TurboHenk, you could try to set steam vr open xr to default wmr open xr, in steam vr settings developer section. both svr and wmr, need to be restarted for it to have effect.

    Have a nice day.
     
  13. Manfredk2

    Manfredk2 Registered

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    AMS2 seems also to have the "pink spike problem" for some people. From the Nvidia dropped frames thread: "I was wrong! It only works well at 80Hz, 90Hz shows many dropped frames in Automobilista 2 even at a steady frametime of 7. Pathetic." So Reiza is also incompentent?
     
  14. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    It's not true. Optimization is usually very expensive. The more complex game the more complex optimization. It's not like you invest 10 % into optimization and gain 30 %. It could be 200 % into it and get 25 %. SW is so much complex and if the engine is old there is probably very much old code and who knows how many talented guys from ISI stayed. You need best talent, a lot of money and a lot of time to have great SW. Many companies don't have anything from it. I don't know situation at all but "being lazy" is rather standard for normal development because nothing else is possible. Current game looks rather good.

    And mostly, you can't sell optimizations almost to anybody. Try to ask investor about few millions you would like to invest into just optimizations.
     
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  15. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    I agree with most of the criticism.

    The UI and loading times makes me want to start rF2 less frequently. The UI is especially bad in VR. I wish they could make a desktop UI, similar to Content Manager for AC.

    I also agree that S397 should review and reorganize the content. It's currently a big mess.

    I'm not convinced, however, that moving on to rF3 would be a solution. A new technical platform would require a ton of work and that work may very well be better spent on improving the current one.
     
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  16. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    But do you think work IS actually spend on improvements? In the last years we've barely seen any improvements in regards of user experience imo
     
  17. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    It's not complicated, the user experience is really the worst part of rF2.

    But what you have to ask yourself is, is it the most important aspects in a great simulation (spoiler: *NO*, just a little important), is it improving (spoiler: *YES*, improving slow but certain and continuous), and above all the most important aspects of a simulation are they globally present (yes, not all, but rF2 is the best on these aspects).

    Then there are aspects that are important on which rF2 is rather bad (but not crappy) : AI, racing rules, online...

    I find that rF2 corresponds to my expectations (real realistic simulation), is constantly improving and overall is not bad, except on userfriendly and AI to keep it simple.
     
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  18. Kevin Karas

    Kevin Karas Registered

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    Yes! I do think it's the most important part, because simulations usually lack of users. And the devs need users to be profitable. And a profitable company can make the simulation aspect better because that's the most expensive part.
    Creating a competition system and focusing on eSports pulls new users to the Sim momentarily but those won't stay because it's pretty "shit" to use. I've been through that, and multiple of my friends I tried to introduce into rF2. It has always been the same story. All hate the user experience and just leave without purchasing any additional content.
    I think User experience is what a 2021 software company should mainly focus on
     
  19. turtleCZ

    turtleCZ Registered

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    Why my user experience is great and bought every possible DLC then?
     
  20. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    Because you are looking for different things.
    I've been surprised when @pilAUTO has said that the online if rF2 is bad. For me is very good. I'm racing only online since rF1 days and the leagues experience has been great. Then i suposse that he speaks about the Comp System or a different way to use the online.
     
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