Now THIS is a great summary of OUR user experience

turtleCZ said:
To me, drift physics is what tires do after you start to slide. It's very important part of a game. If you slide in R3E your grip is instantly minimal. It's true if you have good front grip it could work but in R3E you lose end and front very soon. No drift configuration of course. But in other games like AMS2, if you start to slide, tires has still awesome grip. You can play with the car like on dirt almost. Still lot of grip everywhere. In AC drifting physics is rather easy to me and I still don't know why because I am not so good at drifting for sure but I can do pretty good stuff in AC. So drifting physics to me is when you cross peak grip of the tire and what happens then. It rather looks like some games has artificial front grip. You lose your end but still has awesome front grip to correct it - doesn't feel right for many setups.
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Be careful what you are calling "drifts". :D I did this mistake and irresponsibly called one massive slide from one video "a drift", and got massive downvotes from reddit normies, even though it wasn't even a focus of a subject lol

There is one super simple trick (for car and sim physics devs) how to make all cars extra easy, or just more easy to drift depending what is the set point. Just lower grip differences between non-sliding and sliding, or between driving on the limit and over the limit. As usual main suspects are aero and tires. Easy aero will be rather balanced + ideally producing downforce, and it will be so with any rake, any car yaw angle (oversteer angle). Easy tires will not have big or fast grip reduction due to fully sliding contact patch, they can also be made to not loose much grip and drop to develop slowly spread in time. There are few options for tires to be made easy, to have unrealistically high sliding friction and realistic static friction, but it is bad choice as it leads to too fast laptimes. Another easy "easy drift physics" technique is to have too high sliding friction, but unrealistically too low static friction. This way devs get rather friendly physics, bit difficult not to shred tires, but easy shredding. The worst trade-off of having wrong tire friction composure is that it spoils car simulation from its very foundation, even if everything else is going to be perfectly simulated.

On a funny note, I still haven't tried it. But I think it would be fun to try making a car in a sim, that would actually have MORE grip when sliding, than while actually developing normal static friction. Or in other words, tire slip curve would never drop. It would probably lead to driving when the more 90degs angle you could hit the apexes, the faster your laptimes would be. It would be a treat for drifters haha.

Speaking of good front grip feel, believe it or not, but weight of FFB gives different perception of front grip. Even if front grip is going be the same, it will always FEEL less with very light steering. Some of the physical parameters that directly influences steering weight apart grip is caster angle and steering ratio. More caster and the faster you can turn front wheels makes steering heavier. I have always felt that in AC there is something strange about how front feels in almost all cars, I think it is just that they all are made with rather big caster, and steering on the quick side, and none has it adjustable in setups, and particular feel of AC is amplified by its simple tire model.
 
turtleCZ said:
BUT what I found interesting. Some discussion about grip, peak grip, slip angle, etc. And there some guy told that some real driver found after peak grip there is no sudden drop off of a grip. And that's the biggest PROBLEM! Why some games has big drop off? Or exists different tires with different physics? Why rF2 should be real and drop off is very gentle? Why R3E and iRacing is different? What is real? What is purpose of life then?
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It is unclear what exactly "no sudden drop off" means to that particular guy. With what car, what tires and in what circumstances. There certainly should be ways to set the car slowly into over the limit state. For example being slow with throttle application, not steering in too suddenly, being good with brakes... in other words the driver is capable to dampen a lot of things that happens with the car by setting it more slowly into extreme transients, and feeling where are the extremes.... Anticipating counter actions over the extremes, such as catchign oversteer... It is very subjective what "sudden" means.

It is good question why some games has more hardcore drop-off. One comes in mind - iRacing. It is just my speculation, but I came with a theory that due having more challenging cars it takes more time for people to master them, in iRacing you pay for time you play by subscriptions... So harder cars makes people play more time, thus iRacing generates more income. Another aspect is simply what kind of people is in community and simply taking over particular niche.

In my opinion rF2 simulation ranges from too easy to just right, and in rare occasions, in some circumstances rF2 is too difficult or just not right. Also rF2 does not make money from subscriptions, so having people to move from one car to other constantly is better business. And rF2 like iRacing is also belonging to niche of hardcore simracers, not so much ordinary gamers.

What is real? What is purpose of life then? These are best questions, I study answers to them every day :D
 
For me the summary is very simple and short: This game doesn't work. With every single setting it keeps getting purple lag spikes (GPU related) in VR with the Reverb G2/3080. ZERO support or comment on this subject from the developers unfortunately, so probably it will always stay like that. Such a pity because this seems to be one of the best sims.
 
My fault... I wasn't clear indeed: I am using fpsVR... so it's GPU/VR/WMR/RF2/Nvidia related for 100% sure (fpsVR is very clear about that). CPU usage is not more then ~20%, GPU usage with my current (unplayable) settings is not more then ~40-45%.
 
Yes per core indeed. My point is that no matter how low I configured the RF2 settings (so low that I have such extremly low gpu/cpu usage...): the game keeps having huge stutters(which are seen as large purple lag spikes in fpsVR). It's impossible to get this game working with an 100% stable 90fps with the Reverb G2/WMR/3080 in VR. This while all other supported WMR games run flawless in very high settings at 90fps+ constant framerate on the same machine(AMS/ACC/AC etc.).
 
TurboHenk said:
Yes per core indeed. My point is that no matter how low I configured the RF2 settings (so low that I have such extremly low gpu/cpu usage...): the game keeps having huge stutters(which are seen as large purple lag spikes in fpsVR). It's impossible to get this game working with an 100% stable 90fps with the Reverb G2/WMR/3080 in VR. This while all other supported WMR games run flawless in very high settings at 90fps+ constant framerate on the same machine(AMS/ACC/AC etc.).
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It's not only the G2, I have the same issue with the G1. The spikes are frametime and from what appears on fpsVR it looks like a CPU bottleneck with my o'cd 9900k & RTX3090 as my GPU is rarely utlised beyond 72% but I find that hard to believe (my CPU usage rarely goes above 58%). So the interaction between rF2, WMR drivers, Nvidia drivers, & SteamVR is throttling the GPU usage in rF2 for me. I have given up trying to understand it and trying to fix it. This means that rF2 has become a hotlapping sim for me, which is unfortunate as it was my goto sim. @TurboHenk you don't happen to have an Asus motherboard do you?
 
Magus said:
It's not only the G2, I have the same issue with the G1. The spikes are frametime and from what appears on fpsVR it looks like a CPU bottleneck with my o'cd 9900k & RTX3090 as my GPU is rarely utlised beyond 72% but I find that hard to believe (my CPU usage rarely goes above 58%). So the interaction between rF2, WMR drivers, Nvidia drivers, & SteamVR is throttling the GPU usage in rF2 for me. I have given up trying to understand it and trying to fix it. This means that rF2 has become a hotlapping sim for me, which is unfortunate as it was my goto sim. @TurboHenk you don't happen to have an Asus motherboard do you?
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Thx for your reply. I had an Asus motherboard with this same setup(z390), but now I have an MSI motherboard(also z390) but the issue remains exactly the same. So don't bother switching it. I have an 9700k@5ghz btw.

"I have given up trying to understand it and trying to fix it." Me too. I really tried everything. The saddest thing is: Studio 397 ALSO gave up, but I think that they didn't even try to solve it. This is the worst developer in terms of communication that I ever experienced in my long gaming experience history. This issue is so far spread on this forum, but ZERO comment from Studio 397 and they keep selling the game as "Windows Mixed Reality compatible" but it CLEARLY isn't. It indeed only works for hotlapping, but I'm not a fan of that, so I'm not able to play this game at all since I bought it. And I couldn't get a refund because I spend too many time trying to fix this issue. So I feel scammed by Studio 397 since they simply ignore everyone with this issue and also keep telling everybody that it's compatible with Windows Mixed Reality(by keeping this info on the Steam page).
 
I have a 3080, i7 7700k clocked to 4.9ghz, 32 gb ram
I use a G2 with WMR, supersampling is set at 100% in steam, and I lock the framerate to 45
On most tracks and with the gte/gt3 and a few other cars I drive, i can set most settings up really high and it maintains that 45 comfortably. The only thing i do limit is visible cars to 10 as that seems like a brick wall...anything more than that and regardless of any other settings, the performance dips.
I have spent many hours setting it up to where in runs well. Yes, it would benefit from optimisation, but even its current state, I am more than happy with what I can get from it.
To say WMR is not compatible is incorrect.
 
I feel your pain but over the last 10yrs I've had great mileage from the game and still have hopes. I agree the level of communication over these forums compared to somewhere like Reiza's is pretty abysmal and even though I have Discord I rarely use it. I think due to the many variables involved and the current evolving nature of the graphics engine we will be stuck here for a little while. Unfortunately, i have to do most my AI racing in AMS2 atm which just doesn't feel right & lose interest quickly as I guess I don't feel engaged with the cars/tracks like I do with rf2. It looks and runs great though in vr. I'm hoping either s397 optimises the graphics engine in rf2 for vr or reiza sorts out the physics engine of ams2. Fingers crossed one of the two, if not both, happens in the not so distant future.
 
It would be good to know why some people have problems and other no.
In my case, rF2 runs smoothly at 90Hz with the G2
 
Magus said:
@Andy Bonar 45fps just doesn't cut it for me in vr unfortunately. So yes it runs I agree, but really racing needs to be done at 90fps, I don't think I could survive 20min race at those frames personally.
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I can run it at 90, but that would mean for certain car/track combos having to drop some of the other settings back. Rather than keep messing about, i just lock it at 45.
Yes, the 45 thing is completely subjective...i have one friend who runs his at 60 in WMR... I tried it, and within a few minutes, i felt sick
 
Well, it works like..."Hey, Fullscreen is not working". Use "borderless, this works, other titles have issues, too".
I agree to most of the points in the video. Many things improved and they are trying hard to catch up with this old codebase.
But other very important things are not adressed or even discussed here. Thats their choice, i would do it differently.
As a user from the beginning (f1 2000) its hard to believe which road this engine took and how many (not too good) decisions have been made in this decade. For me the gui is a setp forward and a step backward, looks like been done from a coder instead of a simracer.

Content-wise they are doing great. But physics, ai and gui....
 
Andy Bonar said:
I have a 3080, i7 7700k clocked to 4.9ghz, 32 gb ram
I use a G2 with WMR, supersampling is set at 100% in steam, and I lock the framerate to 45
On most tracks and with the gte/gt3 and a few other cars I drive, i can set most settings up really high and it maintains that 45 comfortably. The only thing i do limit is visible cars to 10 as that seems like a brick wall...anything more than that and regardless of any other settings, the performance dips.
I have spent many hours setting it up to where in runs well. Yes, it would benefit from optimisation, but even its current state, I am more than happy with what I can get from it.
To say WMR is not compatible is incorrect.
I can run it at 90, but that would mean for certain car/track combos having to drop some of the other settings back. Rather than keep messing about, i just lock it at 45.
Yes, the 45 thing is completely subjective...i have one friend who runs his at 60 in WMR... I tried it, and within a few minutes, i felt sick
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It's unplayable (for me) with 45fps, I tried it after reading your comments on this forum. It's really REALLY terrible, I don't understand how you're able to enjoy the game with these settings. You really are an exception, and so is your friend, 60hz with the G2 is watching constant flickering, impossible to play with. You also don't manage to get it running STABLE at 90fps as you said. With an 3080/Reverb G2 it is EASY to get this game running at 90fps with low GPU and CPU usage BUT because of the inconsistent lag spikes (which you just acknowledged yourself! so yes it IS incompatible) it's not stable at 90fps. This while even the heavy ACC and AMS2 at much MUCH HIGHER settings run with ZERO lag spikes stable @ 90fps at the same system. So no, you are not correct, this game is incompatible with WMR. That's very clear, 45FPS is not a "fix". Reprojection/motion smoothing is also not a fix, it's just a way to let this game stutter even more. It should be possible to run this game at such a machine at least at low settings and low resolution at 90fps stable. I think that the devs are thinking the same like you. With this way of thinking this major issue will never get solved.
 
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TurboHenk said:
It's unplayable (for me) with 45fps, I tried it after reading your comments on this forum. It's really REALLY terrible, I don't understand how you're able to enjoy the game with these settings. You really are an exception, and so is your friend, 60hz with the G2 is watching constant flickering, impossible to play with. You also don't manage to get it running STABLE at 90fps as you said. With an 3080/Reverb G2 it is EASY to get this game running at 90fps with low GPU and CPU usage BUT because of the inconsistent lag spikes (which you just acknowledged yourself! so yes it IS incompatible) it's not stable at 90fps. This while even the heavy ACC and AMS2 at much MUCH HIGHER settings run with ZERO lag spikes stable @ 90fps at the same system. So no, you are not correct, this game is incompatible with WMR. That's very clear, 45FPS is not a "fix". Reprojection/motion smoothing is also not a fix, it's just a way to let this game stutter even more. It should be possible to run this game at such a machine at least at low settings and low resolution at 90fps stable. I think that the devs are thinking the same like you. With this way of thinking this major issue will never get solved.
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You can keep adding your hatred of RF2 on every single thread that you hijack. Youre obviously not interested in how to get it working for you.

It is compatible with WMR, i have 3 friends who use the G2 and do not cry about it like you are doing.
Two of them do not like 45, so they use 90 fps. They adjust the graphics settings in other areas to compensate for this, but they maintain 90 fps comfortably.

As I said, I like the eye candy. I too have AMS 2 and yes, it seems a lot better optimised, which is why i try to get my gfx settings as high as I can in RF2 and therefore the way to do that is use 45 fps.

You are misquoting me on the 90 FPS thing. I did not say I cannot run it at 90 fps. I can get it to run stable at 90 fps, it wouldnt be a problem. But if i want the level of eye candy on that I like, I know its not going to stay at 90.

If you are expecting to run rf2 at 100% resolution, at 90fps with everything maxed out, you are living in dreamland.
Maybe youre expectations need adjusting. Maybe stop spending so much time looking at FPS VR and watching the graphs, and see how it actually looks when you are driving. People have tried to help you out, and all you do is criticise them and of course the devs.

If you really cant run the game on low resolution, with low settings at 90fps, you have something wrong with your system.

If there is one big issue I would like looking at is the visible cars issue, as that appears to be a known FPS killer.
 
Andy Bonar said:
You can keep adding your hatred of RF2 on every single thread that you hijack. Youre obviously not interested in how to get it working for you.

It is compatible with WMR, i have 3 friends who use the G2 and do not cry about it like you are doing.
Two of them do not like 45, so they use 90 fps. They adjust the graphics settings in other areas to compensate for this, but they maintain 90 fps comfortably.

As I said, I like the eye candy. I too have AMS 2 and yes, it seems a lot better optimised, which is why i try to get my gfx settings as high as I can in RF2 and therefore the way to do that is use 45 fps.

You are misquoting me on the 90 FPS thing. I did not say I cannot run it at 90 fps. I can get it to run stable at 90 fps, it wouldnt be a problem. But if i want the level of eye candy on that I like, I know its not going to stay at 90.

If you are expecting to run rf2 at 100% resolution, at 90fps with everything maxed out, you are living in dreamland.
Maybe youre expectations need adjusting. Maybe stop spending so much time looking at FPS VR and watching the graphs, and see how it actually looks when you are driving. People have tried to help you out, and all you do is criticise them and of course the devs.

If you really cant run the game on low resolution, with low settings at 90fps, you have something wrong with your system.

If there is one big issue I would like looking at is the visible cars issue, as that appears to be a known FPS killer.
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So this is what you call a fanboy... ? You have many friends that play rF2 and have a G2... So one runs it like you on 45fps?? And the other on 60hz??? And 2 others on 90fps? And you have zero friends that have an G2 with lag spikes in rF2? Unbelievable statistics. I'm not the only one with these issues, you can find them all over this forum! But all your friends don't! For some reason your comment sounds pretty unbelievable.

As I told you, I have 40-45% GPU usage and even less CPU usage(everything green in fpsVR, until the purple spikes come, never even orange). So you don't think that I lowered my settings enough? With such extremly low frametimes/gpu usage it should be impossible to get lag spikes. Normal games get lag spikes in VR after 90-95% gpu usage. I run ACC at high settings @ 90FPS, I run AMS2 at even higher settings @ 90FPS, with some changes I even run DR2 (which is incompatible with WMR) @ 90FPS. All with zero framedrops and then you suggest that it is my system? I tried every little tweak that could be found on this forum, nothing makes the lag spikes go away. No old drivers, no player.json setting, no reinstall etc.etc. nothing.

Yes the dev's of this game should respond to such huge issues. If you don't see it as an issue and prefer to run this game at 45FPS, go ahead enjoy yourself. But don't tell us that it's a great thing to run a sim racing title @ 45fps and that this game is 100% compatible with WMR. It clearly isn't.
 
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