If you're really saying that no car can do it, then I fundamentally cannot agree. The BT20 around Monaco, I can power slide out of turns, I can drift through entire turns... Saying the engine is not capable just sounds a bit silly to be honest.
That's just going into a corner to hot and then floating around it without any real control over the precise angle of the car. When in any low grip situation in RF2 there is a total lack of driver control. Obviously all cars will have a point where they give out and each car will have its own profile but RF2 simply does not allow the driver to control slip angle in ways you would expect from a real car. Have you played NKP or FVA ? Do you agree that the cars fundamentally handle different on the limit to cars found in RF2 ? Game stock car seems to be an exception using the RF1 engin the cars in that to me handle far move believably than the GT cars in RF2 in terms of how they handle on the limit and the way you can guide the cars slip angle. Niels Heusinkveld , and the guys at kunos seem obsessed with this aspect of car control and yet its largely if not totally missing from ISI cars.
No, it's not. I have absolute control of car placement, angle and drift, and not through the entry only. With that, I'm done. I'm afraid I can't respect the opinion now I know you aren't respecting mine, or my own experience doing it. What you're saying just isn't true to me. Can't take you seriously now.
In what way am I not respecting your opinion ? I'm simply pointing out what I see as a disconnect with RF2 and real life cars and other simulators. NKP and GSK are precisely notable for the aspect of how the cars handle at the limit , Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am disrespecting your opinion it simply means we are at an impasse for presenting convincing evidence to sway a view. Clearly I'm not alone in my view in how the cars handle on the limmit. I'd love for ISI to maybe investigate the possibility that there is something wrong with how the cars are handling when over the limit. Though I'm under the impression that the nature of ISI's tire model maybe limits its ability to adapt to extreme situations and that the approach kunos has taken with its development is geared around reducing those issues. Having said all that I don't doubt the power of the RF frame work as a tool or the versatility of the engine as a whole. I'm also keenly aware of the difference between perceiving something as right or wrong , even factually knowing something as right or wrong and then the difficulty in implementing things in software in a way that works.
Rf2 has some weirdness, in certain situations, in the limit area and when going over the limit. Every sim does. For example netkar pro allows you to do humongous 250 km/h formula drift style drifts in full race cars, yet people don't make physics flaw threads about that sim because ppl only complain and analyze physics when a flaw makes it too difficult, but never when a flaw makes it easier. Hilarious. I guess analyzing a flaw like that is too difficult and complex for some, they wouldn't be able to comprehend the physics flaw in that situation, they would just take it as perfect physics and a testament to their skills. Hilarious.
For my part I'm not saying is realistic because It's hard, I think is not really difficult to race in rFactor 2, go fast is hard allways, here, in GT5 or the game you choose... only practice is needed to drive correctly in rFactor 2 with some speed. I was saying that all hiohaa and jameswesty are saying is crazy, are almost completly wrong. They are taking as truth that in real life you can slide with GT1, GT2, GT3, or GT4 as you were drifting, maintain a slide during a whole turn or at least maintain long slides not losing time. And yes, some cars are capable to do It (GT4 so so, and historics), or some setups maybe, but not all. Sometimes you can catch a slide and save the car, in real onboards of the same cars as rFactor 2 (I'm talking about GT1, GT2, Megane, FR3.5 and F1) you can see how guys save the car as everyone can do in rFactor 2 at corner exits, sometimes during cornering you have to do fast corrections... this is how real drivers do It is we pay attention how they move their steering wheels. I can find lots of videos (search FIA GT onboard on youtube) of real races with perfect cronering with any slide, or at least not maintaining slides, ONLY some corrections in croner exits as is possible to do in rF2. I didn't see yet any FIA GT, FR3.5, or F1, sliding as this guys are trying to convince us... I tried to find It but was not possible, only videos with snap corrections or even with any correction, no one driver maintaining slides as this guys say as universal truth, is because of that I'm annoyed. And about drifting... if you practice you can do It, but this isn't we are talking about, because that is to overdrive the car, but you can if you want for example with Historics, Corvette and 370z . The only proof hiohaa showed, is "he" driving with a Palmer Jaguar prototype in WET! this is even more annoying... completly different kind of car, and wet track, the same as GT1 in dry termac I can show you how I slide with F1 in wet A clear example of how really GT drivers "slides" and do corrections, really close (or visually exact) as all videos we showed you about rF2 driving with good hands, not overdriving the car, pushing and going fast... the guy of real video seems to be overdriving a little the car, more to our favour:
I had this issue of losing the rear unexpectedly in tight slow corners with the GTR initially too. I started checking the tyre temps as it just seemed very odd being as the car generally felt very grippy. I noticed that the rear tyres when braking hard (not locking) and steering into a tight bend seemed to heat up excessively quickly. Once they got to about 200 (something like that) all grip is lost and around you go and they stayed HOT. Therefore it seemed more like a heat dissipation / build up issue than anything else. What I have noticed is that when running the latest build, This doesn't seem to happen anywhere near as much. Even the skippy seems to grip like hell or at least be very recoverable when sliding the rear out. It feels more like driving RBR with confident control of grip with throttle. I have definately had odd slow corner sudden loss of grip, but its getting better with each release and I still think its more to do with how the certain car's tyres heat up and cool down than anything else.
Good point, if something goes unexpectedly easy in a sim you're gonna say to ourself Well, this is a sim after all, it was ME who did it good! But if it goes unexpectedly hard it must be bugged.. silly the human brain is, isn't it
To me, it looks like car in rf2 slips a bit more on both when coming to a corner and when exiting a corner. But this is only based on looking these videos. but apparently you can not compare these two cars or situations so nevermind
What the hell steering lock is on those F1 videos.. No wonder he thinks he is driving on ice, it's under steering like no tomorrow. Listen to the tires, look at 57 secs in, full on left lock, same corner with the real F1 @ 1:30 and he is less than half a turn. Looks like people need to look for apple to apples (setups, conditions, weather, track) rather than videos from a pro to an amateur.
Haven't checked tire temps from GTR but definately recognize those rear tire overheating situations which leads into major problems in grip and tire wear. However wouldn't be so sure if it's flaw in tire modeling. It's easy to overheat rear tires and difficult to cool them back to normal when grip is lower and hence balance ruined (too much oversteer of course). GTR has also pretty powerful engine so it doesn't help to cool those tires either. I think GTR has huge grip but agree at very low speed the grip is usually low. However don't think the main problem is with tire modeling but default setup (I'm talking about GTR). Reason for this is that sometimes there is huge understeering and other times huge oversteering. At least to me this tells on understeering front tire(s) are sliding and on oversteering vice versa. So at very low speeds the balance may be somehow wrong as tires are apparently fighting against each other. Don't have time right now to try to fix this behaviour but would bet it's either diff or brake map - or both. Also wide tires can't be very grippy at very low speeds (so it's also possible tires are fighting against themselves ). Don't know if this is something which other sims may lack and now that ISI's tire model is more advanced it feels wrong to some people - just guessing though. As long as I haven't driven real GTR I can't say what is realistic and what is not. I suggest same for others! All I can say is that I just love to drive this car. It handles very well, has lots of power and grip, has great sounds and clean windscreen , etc. I would say without that handling problem at hairpins it would be perfect simcar - at least to me - in my humble opinion.
perfect description of what I mean . I'm not able to do so due to my missing english skill good to read one how could also compare real/simulated condiditions!
Interesting to see lap times in F1 at Catalunya drop by 15 seconds over 2 drying sessions this season. When you drive on ice its as if your steering wheel and pedals have been disconeected. Grip is all but zero (that is unless you have studded tyres that is). So when a premise begins with a fundamental exaggeration such as comparisons with ice it does cost itself and the author much credibility from the outset. I have driven many hundreds of miles on snow and ice including on ice racing tracks both as a driver (karts on ice) and as a passenger with Ivan Mueller who was the WDC for ice racing. I have also driven cars of various types up to 550 PS on track. Loving what ISI is doing with this sim. Oh and (whoever made the point) the Ben Collins reference to denigrate the ineffectiveness of the use of pro drivers is flawed. Ben Collins wrote back to PCars and criticised their tyre / grip model for in effect either being on rails or skidding. He said it did not feel realistic. So his involvement /name should not be used to imply support for their product.
I would find it fine, if we stop to discuss if someone is not able to drive in a sim and bash each other. Maybe is there a fixable reason for that conditions (we read about some in the posts)? - "Rear Tire Heat" which is calculated wrong in some conditions - maybe "wrong" settings in game for the wheel, which make it impossible to handle the car like in real life (maybe some of you have the perfekt settings and thats the reason why you feel fine with the physics!?) - and?? Would be nice if we could discuss result oriented!! I repeat, i like rfactor and the goal of that product, but it's still beta and I (and I think you all too) will help to improve the game so that its "play"able out-of-the-box
If the games fundamentaly flawed in your opinion and fva or netkar is not then its a simple solution for you dah, jeez i dont like a certain other games attempt at simulation so guess what, i simply dont play it. We just dont have the cpu power to have perfect real world physics, no game/sim is going to be perfect so just play the one in your OPINION you think presents real life.
As I said already, if you are able to drive the Skippy properly, you can do all these things. Precise sliding through the corner with throttle control and powering out also choosing angles in which you take the corners. This is a car which is supposed to do this and it does it. I have not driven the Skippy for a time about three months, I was bored and went online, the only server which I had access to was a racing school server so I thought I'l give it a go. So after some months not driving the Skippy, jumping on the server I met Jameswesty AKA "Gamermuscle" which was seconds behind my lap and I am not that good. So how can this guy tell me things how to drive at the limit when he has no idea where the limit is with this car which is obviously the best example of all these things he can not do in rF2? It's always the same trolling story with these two guys. First comes Jameswesty aka " Gamermuscle" and makes some statements how bad rf2 is. Then people argue with him, then Hiohaa aka "pastor tedwhatever, mo" backs up his opinion cuz they come always together in any forum lol. Then the internez war starts. Mostly people disagree often with them and then they get angry and tell you you have no idea lol. I'll make you a suggestion Jameswesty. Go, take the Skippy around Sebring and match the AI time at 110% ( don't know how fast they are there exactly ), if you can do that and then still claim the same things about rF2 I will agree forthwith with you. Deal?
you right so right Mrslfrsl ive seen it mate and its quite sad, even if the topic on the site is not about rf2, some how it still gets a bashing from the pair of them lol team pastormuscle
