I think the same as you, people push too hard, thats caused by the sense of speed, going a 100kph just feels like 20kph.
Yes i hear this stuff a lot. Bear in mind that the feeling in simulator will not be the same as in reality. You are limited into a small screen, or small screens, meaning even by your sight you are not able to precieve the speed as you would in real live, everything seems to be slower, because its smaller. Also u dont feel G forces, another big factor that makes you feel like you go slower than you actually do. Simply on screen it looks all slower. Does not mean that it is. Get your self a wall projector as it is really the one ultimatelly realistic FOV solution, then you will be able to precieve the speed a lot easier, and have better experience BTW somewhere in this topic i saw question "What does grip have to do with driving skills?" - LOL!
From the highest level of rFactor racing (FSR WC) Controlled drifts at multiple places (for example 20 seconds): Controlled drift exiting turn 1
yes, FSR WC drivers (especially Morand and Huis) and aboslutelly amazing. Just look at his accuraccy with that car around those walls. (sorry OT, i just really love these guys)
stonec it doesn't matter what you post and how much evidence you post these two guys will just turn the arguments and say it's this and that and it's crap. If you ask them valid questions which they can't answer they will just ignore them. Heck I made a hole drifting video with the SLS, a car with an big amount of torque, with street tires which just can drift around how ever you want. Here the F1 car, the first turn in the video, it's quite obvious, and several other turns. No back of the throttle, nothing, just small corrections. I am obviously overdriving the car and the car is not supposed to be driven in that way nor is it good for the tires. These are just two videos I already made which were not meant to be evidence for something. lol. Not all cars are made to slide around corners. So they don't behave like that. Some cars just need you to be precise and do not forgive any misstakes. The vette for example is a beast of a car. It's so sensible to every imput of the driver. You can dance with it but you have to be precise. Bring the backend to turn with throttle, power out of the corner, use the brakes to turn in, all that is possible and helps whilst driving to achieve good lap times. But you really have to listen to the car, to be sensitive and understand what it is doing. Watch your corner entry speed, all your moves and watch exactly what the car is doing. IMO it's incredible how sensitive the cars are and this is what I love about this sim. The skippy is one of the best if not the bes sim car ever made. It's so sensitive in every way. The weight distribution reacts to every single tiny input in such an incredible way I have yet to see in another sim/car. All this stuff with the combination of proper sensitive tires (tire wear, temps....) rain, night driving, real road and much more, makes rF2 for me an incredible sim which I enjoy and will enjoy for a long time till something better pops up. Simple as that.
I know right, they are just on such a different level, it's insane. I found an rF2 vid of Morand at Croft in the F1 cars. Decided to see where I could compare with his laptime. Still no good setting a car up, so just kept most as stock. Finally after practicing over the weekend and just slowly building up, I was able to beat the initial time he set by about 2 tenths...felt quite bloody pleased... ...Then I saw he was on hard tyres and I was on mediums...and then I saw he had worked on his setup some more and dropped another .6 or so under... XD
Everyone who thinks RF2 is mostly right and does not have slip angle car control issues uses these arguments - Real world f1 drivers have more skill that you as a simracer don't posses - Sims you feel like you are going slower than you are and so you are just over driving the car without realising it hence spinning - Here is a video showing me drifting x car in the game and its exactly what you would exspect - NKP FVA are to easy to drive that's why the cars allow for more slip - you have not driven x car in real life so you don't know ISI are using real world data so they must be right The counter augments to each of those points - Actually driving a car near the limit of its grip and being in control of its slip does not take F1 driver ability most moderate to skilled drivers can do it , But doing it lap after lap near perfectly in changing conditions and also hitting the fastest lap time does take emence skill training and ability. That is what most people lack , not the fundamental aspect of feeling out or controlling slip angle at any given point in time. - You might get a different perception of speed and a lack of feel in sims but you can also put many hours into eatch car on the same track with the exact same set-up and road grip allowing you to easily learn and adapt to the cues of the simulator alowing you to respond and controll a car acordingly. A skilled simracer is well aware of the limit of grip and what a car will do in XYZ situation in a simulator. A skilled simracer can also identify when a simulator seems to have lack of control and depth when the car is at the limit - All the videos posted just show at best the car locked into a defined slip / drift which the driver is essentualy hostage to , the driver does not have precise control over angle of the car at all points in the corner. ( you can actually see this type of drift happen in Pcars though its worse in that than RF2 and is obviously not very realistic ) - Real world cars are actually easy to drive at a basic level especially if you had 3 + hours to get used to them , NKP is easer than rf2 at a basic level because not only do the cars fully communicate grip through FFB but the cars operate at slow and high speed more like real world cars do in that they have progressive slip angles that are controllable. The depth found in NKP and the ablity for the driver to better chose the angle of the car actualy makes the simulator harder to master and harder to achive top lap times. Because just like reality you have to absaluty master the aspect of angling the car at the right times and in ways that are beneficial to lap time. Conversely driving in RF2 is mostly down to hitting brake point and then taking the corner at the fastest speed before the back end will slip out , then violently shaking the wheel to hunt for grip if it does come out. Game stock car (using RF1 engin) also replicated the nature of GT cars far closer to the GT cars found in RF2 and again Niels Heusinkveld is widely respected for his car physics implementation are his cars unrealistic because they are to easy to control ? - Kunos claim they are using real world data so do other developers obviously having the data is not the be all and end all given that evan if you have a large spectrum of data you will likely still be missing key data that describes how and why a car moves on the limit. RF1 and RF2 are superb training tools Precisely because there is no real give when you go over the limit (bar a cuple of mods) ,even though in this aspect they are unrealistic what it does do is focus a driver on being smooth nailing brake points and being consistent. But What it it does not do is train a driver raw car controll / mastery of angling the car on the limmit. Real world drivers obviously don't need this from a simulator as they can just jump in a real car and do it having used the sim to nail basic things like brake points , general corner speeds and track layout. But someone that does not have the money to regularly drive a real race car will find RF2 and RF1 largely unforfilling once they become a competent driver as the aspect of pricecely controlling slip angle in a way that contributes to a faster lap from road car all the way to F1 ( often times to avoid more slip) is probably the most addictive and rewarding aspect of doing laps around a track
Please forgive me if i'm wrong...but is it not a fact that NKP and FVA are both finished pieces of software (no further development), and rF2 is in constant development (therefore not finished or complete)...because if so, you really cannot use them to compare either.
Hopeless... I'm still waiting to see in real life (though videos if you want) all you say we can't do in rF2 all what you are talking is invalid, because you say things you "think", things you take as truth not being able to prove, and we can. We show you white, and you say blue, It's hilarious. PS: read what I said before because all you posted I defend, It's wrong.
People have Explanid it multiple times before and shown many videos explaining it I suggest you read the post by hiohaa as he is spot on with his analysis provides a real world example of him driving and has extensive experience driving real and virtual cars. Every time this conversation comes up you have people like you claiming to have videos showing yourself or others driving with precise control over slip angles when non of them actually show that , all they do show is the driver in hostage moments and then collecting it or at a locked slip around a sustains corner. Ether ISI will improve how the cars handle we know that its possible just look how good Niels work is in Game stock car or they wont and people that can actually drive at the limit and know what it is will tend to play games like NKP FVA and AC when it comes out. Again hiohaa is spot on I don't know how you can take issue with what he is saying the issues with RF1 and RF2 with how the cars drive on the limit is something many respected people in simracing talk about and are aware of. If you want to be ignorant / outright dissmiss those people based on your perception that's fine If you enjoy playing RF2 then that's all that matters. I also don't disagree that there are going to be huge differences in how each simulator is perceived due to the fact that all of them are ultimately abstract from the real act , and every driver ultimately has differing skill level , driving style and expectations.
In hiohaas video is nothing you can't do in rF2 with the corvette, also on a dry track even if this is a beginners friendly half wet surface which makes it more exiting and forgivable but nothing more. He is obviously most of the time over driving the car in several turns. Yet to see your Sebring/Skippy lap ............. (Ah just a suggestion, turn the FFB mult up to 2 and the smoothing to 4, as these are the conditions which I use. Ignore the clipping just for this time ) I am out of here till it comes, and please record your steering wheel inputs (G25) too.
The inference seems to be that once past the limit of grip that no matter the throttle or steering input thereafter, you are a passenger. This isn't what happens with my copy of rf2 in B218. Particularly demonstrable with the skippy. I wonder if their PC's are of low spec that somehow renders their inputs delayed or something, because otherwise jameswesty's descriptions of what cannot be done in rf2 make no sense what so ever. In fact, he completely ignores anyone suggesting that everything he says cannot be done, can be done easily, so perhaps he runs at sub 60 fps and refuses to believe anyone can be experiencing anything different than he.
I will have to set it up and record it , I'm already skiving off work having this discussion , The time old sim-racing physics debate ! I'v being waiting for RF2 to become more developed before making a proper video on it but if I have time I will record a lap in the skippy. In the end if people are having fun that's all that really matters , I definitely get the impression that simracing has grown in popularity the last 5 years. I think The discussion just arises from people feeling something is true and another person thinking the other way and then it baffles your mind trying to see why someone is perceiving something that seems so clear differently. With a game being a simulator the developer is essentially making a truth claim , they are claiming the game is a copy or real life ( or as best possible with current technology) . So unlike fictional games where you can put differences down to artistic preference with a sim ultimately sum-one or something has to be more right than another , Mind you the arguments on Steam forums about CS 1.6 CSGO also seem endless lol.
My belief is you are the one ignorant here as you failed to respond to my video evidence. Regarding simulators, iRacing, netKar and rF/rF2 all have a completely different feeling. Which one is correct? Impossible to answer. Driving the iRacing F1 car, there is virtually no grip in low speed. To deal with this, one has to make funny wheel moves and use a very high gearing. in rF/rF2 there is more feeling than in iRacing for me. In netKar/AC, it's my opinion that the developer has gone a bit too far overcompensating the lack of G-force feedback, by making cars behave too predictable. Because the sim racer does not have the same feedback as the real racer, he will always feel less in control. Hence it might make sense to compensate for lack of feedback, by making the cars more forgiving than what they really are. Again, this is just my opinion as we are all guessing here. netKar/AC is surely very different to iRacing/rF/rF2, that's easy to agree on.
I have already replied regarding your videos "Every time this conversation comes up you have people like you claiming to have videos showing yourself or others driving with precise control over slip angles when non of them actually show that , all they do show is the driver in hostage moments and then collecting it or at a locked slip around a sustains corner. " Also I said "If you want to be ignorant / outright dissmiss those people based on your perception that's fine If you enjoy playing RF2 then that's all that matters." Not that you are ignorant , The piont was that many respected people percive the same issues as I with RF1 and RF2 , but if you or other people want to be ignorant to the other views and you enjoy RF1 and RF2 that's fine. And I agree F1 and faster cars in i racing certainly have many issues as well , I'd certainly rate the FSONE mod in RF1 higher than i would the F1 car in i racing , Id evan rate the FSone mod higher than any of the single seater in RF2. Though it has to be said I have had limited time with i racing and not had a chance to drive the f1 car in it recently so it may have changed.
Done, my new video training for a race I have Sunday (first laps at green track, but going fast ans pushing in 1:39s): Here hiohaa's video in wet track (more slippery, and easier to do big slides): Please, find 7 differences, I can't. Despite he is on wet track, he did the same I do in my video, both in the "grip limit" as he says again and again. I can do even more controlled and longer slides than him, and losing less time.
