...interesting stuff. Still hoping someone with a CSW will come on here and tell me they have something other than partial FFB with the F2. Unfortunately, all the settings in the world (and I have played with them all over the years and still have a highly customized rf1 profile kicking around) won't fix a fundamentally unbalanced/mismatched FFB implementation. The ISI F1, by the way, feels for me at total default settings the way you describe the F2 feels for you with your customized settings. The best part of the FFB is way the wheel loads-up with the down force in the fast corners. The F1ASR cars also have this effect, as does the Indy car. You really feel what it is like to drive faster into a corner and have more grip than if you drove slower. Scary, weird and thrilling all at the same time...but captures the essence of modern open wheel racing. The F2 has none of that feel through the wheel for me.
Thank you Paul, i'll try your settings. and I understand that Paul but that doesn't mean it is dynamic, because they need a source for the forces and if they are only applying when the tire has contact with the surface, that still doesn't mean it is dynamically generated by as example the tires self damping, steering system damping,...etc, it than still just could be a static damping signal to damp the overall forces, and nothing else. I'd like to hear a dev about this. BTW: could you please post your current json settings again ?
Dampening is static. Go and set it to "Steering resistance coefficient":1, "Steering resistance coefficient#":"Coefficient to use for steering resistance. Range: -1.0 to 1.0", "Steering resistance saturation":1, "Steering resistance saturation#":"Saturation value to use for steering resistance. Range: 0 - 1.0", and you already will feel on stand how it works, provided you use standard "Steering torque sensitivity":1, "Steering torque sensitivity#":"Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high", "Steering torque zero-speed mult":0.3, "Steering torque zero-speed mult#":"Multiplier at zero speed to reduce unwanted oscillation from strong static aligning torque",
Thank you Paul, you know I respect your opinion really, because I know you know what you're talking about, and you can believe me I can rate that, but unfortunately some things are not as we both like would to see, feel, or as it should be.
...........and what exactly is transferred in which strength. The steering wheel gets heavier with varying load, that works for me as well, but the tires feel like solid rubber. Little air and stiffness improves the overall feeling.
I agree, altough the real steering is quite calm on the straight and the vehicle is not extremely responsive to ruts and bumps, as it is in rf2 with standard settings. In rfacror it fights against itself with standard settings.
More the FFB i think, but i could manage to get a good overall emotion. I guess that unfortunately is the reason why most are not immediately convinced, because of the mix of both in standard when tyring it the first time.
Me too, i like that the F2 is something special but i also prefer the FR3.5 more. Unfortunately I could not really drive much the last time since I have some problems with my back but I hope I'll be back very soon to more intensive driving. Now and then I have some visitors which like to test but who drive less rather than to fly.
That doesn't sound right, are you sure? The zero-speed mult should only take effect at zero speed. The clue is in the name! Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
That's true, now that you mention it. I didn't noticed that. I've probably confused it with the steering torque min and had it somehow skipped, but I was rather of the opinion that too much torque is applied generally to the zero point/steering center with the standard setup, and it unfortunately is not particularly well externally adjustable, because reducing the multi also reduces everything else, and the linearity remains the only option but also is not the best solution.
I just drove the FR3.5 yesterday for the first time in a real long time. It was at the RaceFactor (or is it RaceRFactor?) Spa track. It was just with completely default rF2 FFB + 3 or 3.5% STM, T500RS control panel at 70 overall, 100 constant and periodic, 0 spring and damper. And my thoughts of the FR3.5 are that it's honestly a pile of garbage. ..Is the problem just FFB, or is it the physics themselves? Well it seems to be a bit of both, plus audio. Starting with audio...The sounds, at anything but 100% throttle, sound like absolute garbage and can severely affect your driving - I mean I don't even realise that I'm 95% up the rev-range while in a corner because the car sounds like absolute junk unless you have 100% throttle applied. Also, going through a corner at off or part-throttle at lower revs (anything under 60, or so, percent) and it honestly almost sounds like the car is just simply idling or almost off. It's beyond garbage, it's seriously a joke. I'm exiting corners at part throttle and i'm not even realising that I'm driving through the corner in the wrong gear and only 300 rpm away from redline because the sounds are so thin, tame, narrow, shallow, quiet, etc. at any rpm at any amount of throttle besides full-throttle. The terrible sound also makes me not even realise that I'm applying quite a bit of power on corner exit, unless I'm at 100% throttle, then, and only then, do you get any sort of communication/feeling regarding acceleration/power. The FFB also gives me no information other than mid-corner understeer. There are absolutely no subtleties coming through about all the tiny things regarding chassis dynamics, weight transfer, individual tyre loadings and grip/slip conditions, etc. The steering is also really light and at times it feels like I am playing with FFB off in terms of steering resistance and steering corrections. Bumps and curbs come through strong, and resistance comes through on high speed sweepers, but that's it. It's like when you play with all/any forms of FFB completely disabled (if anyone has ever tried that) - just driving a wheel with no resistance, no reactions, nothing. The whole experience just plays like a bad rFactor 1 mod, ESPECIALLY the way in which the rear-end steps out. The car's direction of momentum doesn't continue travelling forward enough, but rather it's like the car's front-end gains wayyyy too much grip and wants to turn-in really sharply rather than the rear sliding but with overall car momentum still going forward....Then again, this has been a massive problem in many sims, including rF1 and rF2, however it seems to be improved slightly in rF2 but it's still there and shows up REAL BAD in certain cars. It seems to show up more the faster, stiffer, and more "on-edge" the car is (eg. FR3.5, F1, early 90s Ferrari F1 mod, etc.). Then there is the problem with the car wanting to shoot up to redline as if it as 6000 hp the instant you achieve just a tiny bit of slip, and at nowhere near 100% throttle. Cars, even open-wheel high HP, light flywheel cars, don't do this. You can manage and hold slip angles with some good throttle and car control, even with F1 cars and even in the rain. Not in the rF2 FR3.5, though, which feels like it has 6000 ft-lbs of torque - at any rpm and at any amount of throttle - the instant you get some wheel spin. Then, even when you manage to catch the car, it's all clunky and indirect, you feel like it was due to luck rather than just being able to man-handle and control the car from your own skill and feel. All this means that the throttle applicstion on corner exit is just awkward and messed-up. You all too often have to "hold consistent throttle, hold consistent throttle, hold, ok now the car is finally pointed straight (no corner load) now I can finally smash the throttle to 100% and and be safely on my way". Unless the car is pointed straight, then there are some serious mid-corner/corner-exit, on-power (even at low throttle amounts), physics issues. Then there is a completely dead feel upon braking and brake modulation, and while you combine that with the addition of steering-input as you transition from braking to, and into, the corner-entry phase. Nothing telling you about chassis dynamis, weight transfer, slips, nothing. It's just a disaster in what seems to be almost everything - physics, FFB, and audio - which leaves only graphics, and the graphics are fine. P.S. This was also at a modern Hockeheim circuit, not just Spa. Oh, and please don't tell me to learn how to drive or anything like that. I'll race anyone, at any track, in almost anycar, in any sim if they need proof of that. Also, I have a youtube video on my channel with some decent rF2 F1 kart driving, in-case someone thinks I am slow as hell and can't control tricky and edgy/snappy cars. (I can make more videos for anyone if they want, I got nothing to hide).
I need to refresh my memories because it is some time ago as I tortured the vehicle the last, but I left the cockpit with a relative good impression, except for a few little things which I can not remember in detail anymore, could be well FFB related and or the driving behaviour in some cases. Unfortunately I no longer have my ffb specific setups and car setups as I noticed, I must have accidentally deleted them during a clean up. With the sound I have no problems, at least i'm not aware of that may have an influence to my driving style.
To be fair, i've tested shortly the FR3.5 and i'm also not very impressed by the overall feeling of it anymore, but i'm also not very impressed by the overall feeling of rf2 lately. For me and in my opinion the feeling is worse in standard than builds ago, for whatever reason, but i also can't find a setup which could compensate it and convience me, while it never did fully. It anyway feels havoc, a lots of action but imprecise and erratic, and it does not match the logic of driving behaviour and car controle. I don't know how to say different but it just is not really informative and harmonious enough, and some forces are to dominant while others are missing. I only hope the new tire patch will change this.
Exactly speed 1, no logic in the FR3.5's behaviour, completely erratic and wonky, just a mess with no sense of being in control and "on top of the car". Not to mention it really tends to highlights some seeming general pMotor issues. Paul, you're a great driver, and I love your videos, no one's fighting . The sounds I am talking about are all while driving, I'm not talking about replays or non-cockpit views or anything. I've seen in your videos some issues I'm talking about, like having to be pretty hesitant on the throttle while the car is loaded, then once the car is straight you can just instantly mash the throttle with no dramas. Also, the general car-rotation pivot point thing I explained in my last post seems to be an issue with the entire pMotor, going back to even rF1 and before. Hell, this problem is even in AC even though it was fine in NK Pro, lol!! That's even more sad. The sims that do this best are NKP, LFS and the alpha/beta version of Drivers Republic (the same genius that did RBR) before it was shut down. The way the rear-mass swung around in DR and the way the car's momentum and overall direction of travel acted in situations where the rear-stepped out was LITERALLY just like real-life, it was eerily realistic, almost scary, and this was just with a plastic, $75 Logitech Momo Racing wheel (you don't need high-end equipment to be able to notice certain proper/improper vehicle dynamics behaviour). I remember 3 or so years ago when a guy was on here trying to explain what seemed like the same thing I'm saying about the way the rear swings out, how it's more like the car gains massive front grip and just turns-in really, really sharply rather than the rear swinging around while the car's direction of travel turns in less sharply and therefore keeping more forward momentum. I remember he was talking about a fundamental flaw in the way the ISI pEngine works with regards to the vehicle pivot point and all sorts of stuff. I think he even had some diagrams, but his post was in broken English (English was clearly not his first language) and most people on here just attacked him as if he was some troll. Well I knew exactly what he was going on about the whole time, from the second I read his post. You can even see this, sometimes, in the way the NSX oversteers around. It's with everycar. Improved in rF2 compared to rF1, but still there, it can really "hurt" the enjoyment, control, and overal physics judgement of many players. For anyone reading this, I personally think that rF2 is the best sim out there (#1 in both physics and FFB, overall). It's generally bloody amazing , but there are still some odd things. I am very excited about the tyre model updates and any other core pMotor (including the tyre model) updates. So please don't interpret my physics rants as a large stain on rF2; RF2 is, overall, bloody amazing to drive
I agree with the technical part about the steering. I talked about the difference of a mechanical direct connection and the ffb system in any thread as well, but where is the point of the realism of the software and the ffb of it when it does not work in standard with standard consumer hardware, which the most user have, and i would be not that sure that it does a better job with a more pro tool in this state at all.
I'm going to try the FR3.5 with your FFB settings. What you're saying about physics and FFB is completely bogus. Analysing the way a vehicle behaves is completely independent of FFB. Regardless of all that, pMotor (and other sims like AC, but not really NKP, LFS, and especially DR) still hase fundamental issues with the pivot point and oversteer moments which tend to act too much like the front-end gains massive grip and you are purposely turning very, very sharplyl rather than the rear-mass swinging around while more of the car's momentum/velocity continues in forward motion. You can even clearly see this in that recent (and beautiful) video that a user just posted in the video section a week or so ago. It's a video of the 90s Ferrari F1 at the Nordsschlief, with a camera filimg the real-life player driving on his PC. You can see this incorrect and odd behaviour on the big correction and save he does on the exit of the downhill left (which leads on to a steep uphill followed by a double-apex right, it's early on in the lap). Those are fundamental issues, though, and probably won't get fixed anytime soon (but have improved from rF1). So back to the FR3.5. You can't lean on the rear and get a sustained slip with it without it going into an overly sensitive and quick slip. It always feels like it's on eggshells and gains 6000 hp the moment you get the rear out under power. I'd like to see a video of you really leaning on the rear during cornering loads and getting the car in oversteer moments (again, during cornering load, and not while you're wheel is straight or just about perfectly straight).
