Perhaps because you're not paying attention to the detailed descriptions of what some of us are describing. The car has a special (mostly caster) set-up to assist with steering and the wheel doesn't feel like many other cars. It doesn't snap back to centre in the same way. That's fine. What isn't fine is that it doesn't even feel like a vehicle with any mass or inertia or physics from the planet Earth. But only related to steering forces. The road bump surfaces are completely normal. It's like the Skippy is an apple, the FR3.5 a pear, the GP car an orange and the F2 is a bowl of cereal. Sorry, but it can't be that different from every other open-wheeler ever made. And the problem is that depending on your wheel, you are NOT feeling this, so assume there is nothing wrong. Just like I couldn't feel all the sharp, gear-rattling bumps and vibrations Logitech owners suffered through--prompting actions like asking ISI to take bumps out of the tracks. Tracks felt perfect with my Fanatec and still do. The F2 is an anomaly and I am sure it will get fixed at the time of the next update. Hopefully it will remain the same for those who have proper felling with it and fixed for those of us who do not. So don't assume we are all just idiots who don't understand caster or race set-ups. There is a problem with this car. Have you ever driven by accident with the FFB turned off (or perhaps it flaked out on you while you were running rF2)? That's what this car feels like on my rig that produces sublime, delicious, amazing, best-ever FFB with just about every other ISI car using the identical settings. Understood?
Loud and clear. Just to be clear, when and where did I call you 'idiots'? I don't seem to remember. I get the frustration, but maybe dial the defensiveness down a notch? I am just baffled that I can make this car feel just as fine as any other, and even better sometimes, with just my pathetic G27 wheel, when others are struggling to find enjoyment in it with far better better equipment. I only made two adjustments in the controller.json (suggestions made a long way back in this thread) and that did the trick. Then I messed around with setups for a while, playing with camber, ARB, wing balance, tire pressures, ride hight and not least caster. To me this car feels like a lighter, harder sprung version of the FR3.5 2014. Which is pretty much what I would expect to be honest. Easily one of the most enjoyable cars in rF2 at the moment. It feels planted, I feel the tires, I feel the bumps in the road. I feel the tires when they're about to break traction, and I feel the tires when they're about to lock up. If you'd bothered to look back in this thread, I was very outspoken about the feeling of this car at the beginning. I had actually abandoned it completely due to my G27 frustrations. But someone showed me how to make a few adjustments in the .json and viola; that, and the right setup = problem solved.
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/21591-Any-plans-to-update-the-Williams-F2?p=303913&viewfull=1#post303913
Yes, and I tried all those adjustments and more to no avail. Your description of how the car feels is also exactly how I would expect it to feel relative to those other similar vehicles. I get all the feelings except the planted part. Car feels like it weighs 100 kg and is made of paper or balsa wood. Just be lucky the G owners got a break this time (if you count having to adjust arcane settings first as a break). I'd ask you to think about whether there is anyone in this thread who has proper (relative to the other similar ISI cars) FFB out of the box? Think of your otherwise innocent comment in that context rather than worrying about whether I am being "defensive."
Thanks for trying, Paul, but my Howston FFB is phenomenal out of the box. I am not going to make any further adjustments that could jeopardize the excellent FFB on almost every car except this one and to be honest I can't be bothered fiddling with more specialized controller files. It's already stupid that I have to manually toggle between files every time I switch cars that use a different shifter type (H-pattern vs. paddles vs. sequential stick). I'll just have to be patient and wait for ISI's F2 update.
No, I use out-of-the-box stock settings and they feel wonderful and don't require any fiddling (what a concept!!!) The separate controller files are required because we don't have a simple set-once-and-forget option for the type of shifter the car uses. That's the only setting that changes for me between one car and another. H-pattern versus sequential stick versus paddles, since I have all three physically. I don't and shouldn't have to adjust FFB settings for one car to the next. I shouldn't even have to adjust a FFB multiplier (and generally do not) except in a few rare cases when forced to someone (ISI or modder) chooses to use an odd too-light or too-heavy setting relative to the rest of the cars. If you design in isolation, you can suddenly have a Skippy with heavier steering than an F2, even though they are fundamentally the same design, neither has power steering, so the heavier car with the much larger tires and downforce should have the heavier steering if all other game settings are equal.
I of course had to tweak my G27 settings quite a bit to make the cars feel as good as they do now. The Formula Two is just how it's supposed to be, feels like it's supposed to feel. It just takes some tweaking all across the board. This car is what made me realise that I had to do something about my general wheel settings. Non of the cars felt amazing using completely stock settings. After I tweaked a few things, every car feels amazing, not just this one. So it is a wheel problem, not a car problem imo. I wouldn't wait around for ISI to make an update to the F2 to magically make it feel entirely different. I don't hope they do either.
I've tried so many people's FFB. At the end of the day nothing changes much because unlike rF1, GSC, etc. we aren't actually customizing things like what sort of signals get sent to our wheel, manipulating those signals in different ways, etc. We basically just all use the exact same FFB but we just modify curves of that exact same FFB between all of us. None of us are getting any different types of FFB output to our wheels, we're just all modifying curves and strengths of a set "base" of FFB information, and that's it. I think that's my problem because it doesn't matter who's rF2 FFB settings I use, I don't feel anymore or any less information being output from my FFB - because rF2 doesn't allow that to be changed (unlike rF1, GSC, R3E, etc) - but instead just that exact same info but in slightly different due to having different "curves" applied to them. Sure they all feel different, maybe one loads up quicker as you turn, maybe one loads up slower, maybe one feels bumps more or less strongly, etc. but there is nothing new/different introduced in different rF2 FFB profiles and therefore I always find myself back at "square one" no matter who's FFB profile settings I use. None of them actually modify what FFB get's sent to the wheel, you don't get things introduced into the FFB that weren't being sent before with another profile; all we're essentially doing is just modifying different "curves" of the same un-modifiable base-set of FFB that we are all stuck with (unlike rF1, GSC, R3E, etc.).
I wouldn't exactly say that it's unfortunate that we're 'stuck' with rF2's force feedback. Make no mistake, I think the ffb in rF1 and GSCE is fine, but after a while it's just too boring and feels more 'artificial' and stale. That's why I only drive those sims every now and again, I never feel an 'urge' to race them, like I do with this sim. I never understood why so many prefer the 'old' type of ffb when what we have now is so much better, both practically and theoretically. But like with so many things, taste and preference is impossible to discuss, especially in writing.
