Flat-spotting: S397 please include option to disable this!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rapala, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    I agree with you but the BIG assumption is that the mod maker has accurately modelled the flat-spotting characteristics of the tyre they are simulating - which I must say is very rarely the case.

    Henceforth I believe the OPs point of it being customisable is a good option.
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Except that you can already customize it by turning wear off. Whether or not to have wear and flatspots separated is IMO a design choice, but if you ask me it's a part of wear. Many mods like enduracers also have unrealistic deg/wear from heat.
     
  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Usually I flat spot tires often when I'm first learning a car and/or track. But I get better as time goes by. (well, at NOT flatspotting that is...)
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    An option that isn't possible in itself, because that's not how it works. To untie flatspots from other wear would mean a dumbing-down of the wear calculation (think rF1 spec) with some fake flatspotting code thrown on top, which could then be switched off. You can't include only a fraction of the flatspotting without also including only a fraction of other wear (in other words, an overall tyre wear multiplier) because flatspots only exist as a result of wear.

    But, I do agree on one thing: a modder might be tempted to increase the abrasion rates to speed up the effective wear (to help with shorter races, that kind of thing) without realising that will increase the size/depth of any flatspots. That's not a good thing.
     
  5. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Just turn Smoothing up, problem solved. My G25 with smoothing on 4 latest for years and it's still going strong with someone else today. Besides as already has been said that tech is old, sim racers need to move with the times with wheels just like with GPUs but at a much lesser rate obviously! I'd day a wheel upgrade once every five years, something like that.

    I know how attached people can get with wheels, so I appreciate lots stay with something they're used too, but eventually they will have to move on just like the devs are with FFB coding.

    Edit: by that I mean with wheels you buy from your local computer store not the hardcore OSW ones that are supposed to last many many years and cost a fortune ;)
     
  6. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Regarding tyre-wear as a whole: I´ve once already made the suggestion to offer not only off/1x/1.5x/2x but also wear rates under 1x
    like 0.8, 0.5 or so. That would also be a solution.
     
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  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yeah, it really needs a whole lot more options around and under 1.0, to help with various race lengths. Which I think you might have suggested :)
     
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  8. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    This is probably the best solution, never used it, so I didn't know that wear multiplier didn't accept decimals.
     
  9. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Or, tirewear is either on, or off! In real life tires don't magically wear quicker when you do shorter races.

    /runs
     
  10. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    I asked for this quite long ago.


    "ATM it is not possible to select 1.5x tire wear or fuel use. You can choose 0, 1*, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7. Editing player.json values trying to override UI values does not work either. Considering that default value is 1 (it is indeed a typical value used in many leagues) the available choices seem absurd. Real Road Time Scale is much better defined in this sense: 5x is default value and available settings are: 0, 0.1, 0.2, ..., 0.9, 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, 5*, 6, 7, 8, 9, ..., 14, 15.

    I would suggest the following values for tire wear and fuel use: 0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, ..., 0.9, 1*, 1.1, 1.2, ..., 2.9, 3. It would help us, league admins, a lot to adjust car autonomy in order to fit it to our races duration providing interesting strategical options."
     
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  11. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    In real competition, they can choose which are the tires to be selected and they do so. They certainly don't need to modify any parameters.
     
  12. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.
     
  13. Brack Jabham

    Brack Jabham Registered

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    Can't be bothered reading this thread. Either stop driving simulations or offer incredibly precise information as to how current flatspotting happens too readily (ie not akin to real life) Otherwise - no disrespect intended - race with a game rather than a sim.

    A cursory glance tells me peole have suggested what to do to turn down effects. I'd rather we had one real sim and everything else that is not a sim, than 5 or 6 titles that pretended to be "just like the real thing" and were not. I have already wasted my money on those. I now want something that is as close to reality as possible. If you don't want that - please stop posting here (once again - no disrepect intended)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  14. Postipate

    Postipate Registered

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    This!!! Please make this happen. Would make single player AI better with many mods.
     
  15. Tony

    Tony Registered

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    I agree T1, in the end your wheel will be knackered..

    Seems like the flat-spotting is integral to the tyre model & can't be separated out

    I bit the bullet a couple of years ago & sold my G27 & got a T500rs, being belt-driven it makes all the difference (in other driving sims too) - but of course that costs money o_O

    I agree with you Rapala that URD's (otherwise nice) EGT mod is too susceptible to flat-spotting - tiniest skid & your wheel's rattling


    When flat-spotting was first introduced I didn't like it, now I'm fine with it - after a year or so of "adjusting" :p ..it taught me to race better, & not to punish the tyres, & in our league races of around 50min duration (no-aids apart from auto-clutch) I can finish the race on one set of softs (the fronts will be knackered though, with the hud showing those nasty little red-squares on the edges :D)
    But in nearly every race I can be faced with a sudden braking situation - maybe to avoid something happening right in front.. then you have got flat-spots - & not entirely your fault - but that's racing I guess

    And as Lgel said: turn down the brake pressure on the car in the Garage - experiment: 80 or 90% maybe - with the exception of the classics that have vintage/dodgy brakes - cars like the Group C's - I leave them on 100%

    I would leave ABS completely off

    One of our guys (& also one of the quickest) - turns the brake pressure in the Garage for a given car right down (maybe 65/70%) so he can floor the brake pedal & the wheels will almost not lock up.. but just on the edge of turning/locking

    And use a bit of F/F smoothing, (in Options/Controls) as has been suggested - I just looked & even with a belt-driven wheel mine's on 4
     
  16. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

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    nice tips Tony, thanks.
    Brack Jabham, my initial response to your post was to feel offended especially when you say 'If you don't want that - please stop posting here'. Then I started thinking why your argument doesn't hold water and what I can say against it, after which I realised - you're right. If S397 start making concessions to reality because this or that thing doesn't gel with certain people who use rf2, then it could be a slippery slope of spending more time altering things to try please everyone who has an issue with this or that, rather than spending time on the important things and possibly in the end having something that's not very realistic and pleasing no one.

    So I concede that I need to just practise enough with a certain mod and make the adjustments suggested in the thread until I'm not flat-spotting it anymore. I guess a better thread title would have been 'tips to avoid flat-spotting'.

    On a side-tangent, in real-life if a driver flat-spots a tire, can he drive it smooth again if he tries to wear it as much as possible in a few laps, and if this does indeed happen, is this modelled in rf2?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  17. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I think, both in real life just as in the sim, it is difficult to get rid of a flatspot, because at every brake or acceleration, the little "void" can generate a little grip anomaly that can induce another lock when you are on the limit. So, I think the edges of the flat can get smoothed away pretty easily, but the lack of radius in the tire will hardly be again even. But It could happen that another flatspot is in the balance point of the tire, mitigating the effect.. just like another flatspot could happen very near the first, increasing it even more. In the past we have seen F1 suspension collapse due a flatspot, I would suggest a pitstop if a flatspot is severe enough to make driving difficult, you lose less time changing tires than losing 2 3 seconds each lap, increasing your stress and chance to crash. Remember that there are 2 effects that cause the rattling: the lack of roundness in the tire, and the weight offbalance.
     
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  18. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Very good post that proves that you now think in the right direction!
    You just wrote down what I thought for the whole thread!
    Greets
    Pete
     
  19. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    In F1 when they flatspot heavily, the induced vibrations make it really difficult for the drivers to see properly. This has been said many times by Pedro Martinez de la Rosa during broadcasts. I dont know about the wheel vibration thay can get but considering the above I presume it will be quite severe.

    I wonder if it could be useful to have a plugin that would highlight a tire when it locks. I understand that it should help improving braking skills.
     
  20. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

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    Yeh that would be really cool. In Assetto corsa someone made braking app that measures the slip amounts and displays different colours indicating your braking efficiency. Great training tool and would love to see something similar in rf2.

    http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/esotic-slips-hud.12143/
     

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