Flat-spotting: S397 please include option to disable this!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rapala, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    Well I can see this request is not winning any support (even though it wouldn't affect you if implemented), but there may well be many others possibly more casual users who don't visit the forums who might also find flat-spotting a pain.

    Anyway hopefully we can at least all agree on the following?

    - setting tire wear to 3x should not correspond to 3x more sensitivity to flat-spotting
     
  2. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    If you want an option for flatspotting, it is already there! As already stated: turn on ABS, allow/disallow ABS on server.
    Otherwise learn to drive and learn to use the setup and controller options.

    - setting tire wear to 3x should not correspond to 3x more sensitivity to flat-spotting

    agree
     
    Euskotracks likes this.
  3. Emery

    Emery Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    I think you're still missing something. How would you separate flat spotting from "normal" tire wear? It's not possible unless you change the model to the older style.
     
    jayarrbee36 and The Iron Wolf like this.
  4. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,245
    Likes Received:
    329
    I suggest you try this to reduce flat spotting:
    - reduce brake sensitivity in controller menu.
    - reduce brake pressure in the setup of the car.
    - carefully adjust brake balance in the setup of the car.

    I own a G27, with those tricks I can reduce brake edginess even for the ISI Marussia.

    Cheers.
     
    mesfigas likes this.
  5. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    Well I don't like using aids as I do relish the challenge of braking the car as it's supposed to be braked. As I find in IRacing, it doesn't matter how good I am at a track, in a longish race I'm going to have one or 2 lock-ups when you're trying to squeeze that extra tenth from the corner, that only comes from braking at the absolute limit. It's inevitable that lock-ups happen in those circumstances, fortunately they don't model flat-spotting. Anyway don't worry, I'm never going to convince you guys. (although I don't really understand the heavy resistance when it won't affect you).

    I do get that it might not be technically feasible to incorporate it into the tire model code without mammoth effort though.
     
  6. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    I haven't tried this stuff, so will give it a go. thanks.
     
  7. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    There you go....
     
    bwana and Ronnie like this.
  8. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,731
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    So on one hand you want the realism but on the other hand you don't? Flat Spots are part of racing and we are lucky now that Devs of many sims are starting to introduce them, it's time to learn how to brake effectively and if you get a Flat Spot - just like Real Life Drivers - then that's just the way it is.
    Can I ask, do you Quit and Restart Race when you crash?

    For me this is about dumbing down a racing simulator when we should be embracing the fact that the Devs are trying to get this sim as close as possible to reality, we need to embrace the technology, not turn it off. :)
     
  9. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    Kind of. Actually what i do is go to replay and continue from before I crashed, a bit like Dirt 3's rewind feature. I allow myself one of those and if I crash again, and there's no hope of placing, I restart. It sounds like from your tone that this is violating some kind of sim 'rule', but for me rfactor 2 is still a game which I want to have fun in and with my gaming background, I don't have a problem of restarting a challenge when I've blown it.

    Unfortunately there are no in-game challenges, career mode etc, so I have to keep a spreadsheet with my own defined challenges for a race / championship.
     
  10. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,731
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    No tone I'm just trying to get into your mindset really :) What I can't understand is the need for realism in one aspect but then you're asking for another to be taken away which won't help you improve as a driver of that car - a "false reading" if you will, should you ever race online you'll be at a major disadvantage straight away.

    Again personally I strive for realism and learning how to brake properly in any given car is part of that learning curve, after all this is a simulator.
     
  11. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    I suppose you're right, but as I said in OP, avoiding flat-spotting is many times harder than real life because of our limited cues within the sim and when it essentially means 'all enjoyment of race is now over', I don't have a problem turning this aspect of realism off. On the other hand the realism of braking without ABS is a challenge, but doesn't ruin the race when you get it wrong and brake too deep or whatever.
    I know this just sounds like picking and choosing and I recognise your criticism, but for me it makes sense that it creates a more enjoyable racing environment. Kind of like if I enjoy tuna mayonnaise sandwich, but you prefer ham, I'm not ruining your ham sandwich by insisting I prefer tuna.
     
    MarcG likes this.
  12. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes Received:
    1,582
    That's just simracers being simracers... most are a pain to deal with on some topics, ignore.
     
  13. jayarrbee36

    jayarrbee36 Registered

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    You beat me to it, MarcG.

    Complaints about flat-spotting and its consequences seem to come up regularly around here and it always puzzles me. Surely as sim racers we're looking to get as close to reality as possible. Yet when a sim makes advancements and we're presented with a new real-world complication, we try to find a way around it rather than dealing with it! Some of us, anyway.
     
    peterchen and MarcG like this.
  14. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    191
    It is clear that the OP likes to drive locking tires since he does not want to turn ABS on or correct his driving style. Turn tire wear off. Do not try to cheat yourself removing from simulation what screws up tires the most and saying you don't want to turn it off since it is actually what you are asking for.
     
    Ernie and bwana like this.
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    8,899
    Likes Received:
    4,062
    Tyre wear = possible flatspotting. They aren't separate effects in rF2.

    Disabling wear if you don't want flatspotting isn't the end of the world. You still suffer grip loss if you abuse your tyres and they overheat. If you want wear you need to manage flatspots, which might mean braking more cautiously. Too many gamers try to drive 100% every lap - real life drivers don't.
     
    Ernie, Lgel, bwana and 2 others like this.
  16. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    347
    Search for rFactor 2 Log Analyzer, its an addon tool, wich have a championship manager included...
     
  17. Rapala

    Rapala Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    57
    Thanks, I already know about it and do use it sometimes for championships.
     
  18. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    163
    I'd definitely want to have an option to turn the ffb shaking off. It can't be good for wheel longevity and it is pretty annoying. I love the flatspots themselves and the ability to have them and would never turn the physical side of them off but I hate what it does the wheel. I'd not want to buy new ffb wheel every year just so I can be annoyed wheel rattle.

    Ffb overpass filter would be nice to get rid of the ffb spikes and good addon for lots of other reasons as well. The physical flatspots are still there, just less shaky. I don't know if actually disabling the ffb signal for the flatspots is easy but personally I'd love that option as well.

    Calling people casuals just because they disagree about something is kinda odd way to approach this though...
     
  19. stonec

    stonec Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,263
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    I'm not aware of anyone having had their wheel destroyed from rF2 FFB, especially the 300$ plus wheels that most use here are quite robust in build quality. Even less is the concern if you use a belt-driven wheel like all the Thrustmasters, as the belt serves as a dampener itself. The Logitech cog FFB tech is ancient and will probably not be around for much longer, but even a G27 lasted me 3 years of heavy use with rF2.
     
  20. T1specialist

    T1specialist Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    163
    It does add wear and even if it doesn't outright kill the wheel it will hurt the wheel's performance in the end. This kind of vibration is pretty much the worst kind of stress for plastic parts and increases the slack in the wheel too. A G27 probably works "fine" after two years of hard kerb riding and flatspotting but the wheelcheck graph might reveal another kind of truth. It is a bit like oil change in real car. The car will run "fine" for years with the oil that was put into before it rolled off the production line. Not all damage is instant and catastrophic.
     

Share This Page