Build 85 Discussion Mk II

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, May 23, 2012.

  1. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    101
    Yes, it tells. There is no need to fake anything.
    When your car in real life starts to slide it's the rear tires, not front that loose grip and make the back of the car go sideways.. Front tires have grip. So, front tires keeps their direction while rear slides out. The car goes sideways, front tyres holds nicely and it's the body that sort of rotates around front geometry, forcing steering wheel to turn.

    If you have LEGO Technics then build a simple car with a steering rack. When done, grab both front tyres with your one hand and keep them steady. With your second hand, grab rear of the car and move it sideways. Steering wheel will move in a countersteering manner. That's exactly what happens when you start to oversteer a real car... and how it should be in our simulators.
     
  2. JvM

    JvM Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    2
    Indeed ^

    Thanks, gotta try it asap. And check how much it improves the laptime. :)
     
  3. alister667

    alister667 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Actually the steering rack WILL tell you if the rear end is coming out.

    What will happen is the rear of the car will move to one side, while the front wheels will tend to stay pointing in the direction they already are. The car will effectively want to counter steer for you to an extent. You will feel this through the steering wheel, as the car rotates the steering wheel will pull in your hand towards where the car was pointing. If you're sensitive enough with your hands the car will pretty much want to counter steer itself if you let it. The front wheels effectively have a directional inertia and will want to stay pointed in the same direction as the car rotates.

    If your steering rack is not ideally setup the movement of the suspension in the up down direction can cause movement in the steering rack / wheel direction - this is called bump steer, and it's cured by shimming the steering rack so the ball joints at the ends of the rack are co-planar to the wishbone pivots on the chassis. Normally one of the processes of initial setup is to try to do away with bump steer as it's not desirable.

    EDIT [Didn't see LesiU's post. He's right]
     
  4. Duc

    Duc Registered

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    hello,
    more light from the update
     
  5. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    same here, I thought it was just my impression.
     
  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    28
    oversteer and understeer are such simple terms lol, we need more than just the front ploughin like a pig or the back end swinging around, we need all the little feelings you get from your body in the car, we get these feelings in real life much before we feel them in the wheel and before we even recieve them as visual cues, and I would say that 75% of feeling the car comes from this. If all we had was an exact replica of the steering rack yes it would feel the realist in term of steering of course, but in terms of getting a feedback from the car, riding the limits of grip every lap, feeling the tiny changes grip changes, slides, skips, hops etc that affect your laptimes by even a tenth or half a tenth, than no way, sorry but pure 100% steering rack wont do. Go race a foruma ford 1600, ff2000, 450+hp bmw engined prototype, im not trying to brag, I hate when it comes off as that but if I just went by steering and visual cues I would loose id say around 75% of the overal car feeling, and I would either be dead, would have been slower and/or alot less consistent, (EVEN MORE SO IN THE RAIN).

    Theres 2 sides to the simracing ffb, the ones that want pure steering rack without making up for most of the feelings we get through our body (whch is ALOT more feeling than we get from the wheel and visual cues by the way), and then theres the ones that want to take advantage of the ffb to make up for some of the feelings we miss out on (which again is most of the feeling). In terms of steering (and thats what we are doing after all) I agree, of course option 1 is the most realistic. I prefer option 2 though. as when I used to race, it would feel the most natural because the g force and grip info we got from the sims through the ffb would, yes, translate to my body instead of my hands, BUT my brain cant tell the difference wether its from the steering or my underside so it would feel alot more similiar to the game than just a pure steering rack. Now if we analysied the steering rack on its own again of course option 1 is by far the most realistic, but option 2 in my oppinion gives you some of the feelings your missing out on in real life, and again when you hop back in real life, with me atleast, my brain felt more similarities with option 2 because my brain was getting more of the feelings of the car vs just pure steering rack. my brain didnt care that the feelings were on my my backside and butt instead of the wheel, it was still processing those feelings regardless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2012
  7. mikeyk1985

    mikeyk1985 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think oversteer and understeer are perfectly acceptable in describing what happens when a car is over the limit, regardless of what you drive, how many horsepower it is ad nauseum, it's always going to do one of the above when over the limit, simple as. Yeah you feel it before you see it but that can be said for any moving vehicle, doesn't have to be a racing car. Also curiously you don't feel understeer with your body, only oversteer.
     
  8. alister667

    alister667 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Spinelli, I don't think anyone's arguing with you.

    What was stated that you can't feel oversteer through a steering wheel. You can.
     
  9. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    101
    @Spinelli
    But what you prefer then, is not simulation anymore but rather an emulation ;-)
    I prefer raw simulation because I simply accept the fact, that G-forces you feel when driving in real car can't be simulated in simracing and no fake FF effects can change that.
     
  10. Mr.Ferret

    Mr.Ferret Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah awesome fair enough then
     
  11. I need some help ! I can't update to the 3.5 v1.2 ! The rest is updated but the mod manager doesn't allow me to update from v1.1 to v1.2 ! Anyone to lighten my candle ? :D
     
  12. Problem solved! Corrupted file! LOL! :cool:
     
  13. RbNoS1

    RbNoS1 Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    when excepted the next update (in 1-2 months? ) ? :rolleyes::)
     
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,431
    Likes Received:
    958
    Next build is a total guessing game

    My guess early August. (taking into account seasonal holidays etc )
     
  15. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    29
    I think one more update will be released before holidays.
     
  16. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    204
    You guys forgot about the 60's update with Monza 66 that's coming probably this week. I also expect a small patch to build 85.

    There's a fine line between being sarcastic and funny.... and being sarcastic and a troll.

    *cough cough*
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2012
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    83
    cough cough
     
  18. MarcG

    MarcG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,407
    Likes Received:
    1,705
    I'm hoping for a hot fix to fix the night racing problems, also the extra 60s stuff should be cool
     
  19. whiplash

    whiplash Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't want to read the whole thread, but maybe someone can answer my question here. What's the actual change in tyres or other physics, that make most cars (specially meganes for me) a bit different to drive after the new build? I am not complaining, it's just that i used the new version first time today and something feels different, specially tractionwise. But not wrong for me, i would think they're gettin better. Is it just tyres?

    Might be driving a bit more rF2 in the next time, ty cops... ;(
     
  20. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    7
    There have been updates in the core tech (came in b69 I think as an optional addition) and included in the cars in the new updates that added heating of the tyres caused by tyre dampening. While it's still not finished, it did bring the tyre temperatures up noticeably (I went from averaging 40 degrees to averaging 60 degrees with the FR 3.5), which makes the tyres work better overall. Cold tyres are pretty horrible for racing. =)

    I'm sure there was other stuff too but that was pretty big.
     

Share This Page