Am I the only one thinking payware could be rFactor2's death knell?

At first I was one of those who don´t like the idea of paying for mods...I mean come on they don´t have a real licence of the cars who at least can assure you that the content "is loyal" to the real one, and of course how can we know if the physics are also realistic?...

Well, in a world of simulation in where top of the line simulators are similar, but yet different between each others talking about FFB, physics and overall feelings...how can we know which one is the best, or which one is giving us the most realistic simulation?
We can´t know that, we just like one more than the others, we prefer the one that suit our driving style the most or the one that you or me, or whoever think that is the best or gives the best feelings depending in what you want/like.

We know what we personally speaking prefer, and that is what we at the end of the day like and buy. Am I correct?

Right, with that said...A mod can be good or also can be bad. In both ways it can be good or bad for ones and not for others, so it is subjective to what each individual prefer.

Well, I am a guy who cares about quality products, if I pay it has to be good...if not forget it. But I am also a guy who likes to "support" stuff in general, mostly if it is related to gaming which is my main hobby. (simulation is a part of the same for me)
I use to support what I think it can be good, or something that it is actually good...the same as happened the day rFactor 2 started with the beta and I paid for it not knowing exactly if the game at the end is going to be that good or not. But in this case of course the name of it, the prestige and all the promise had a great impact in that decision.

I also use to support a lot of development projects that I think they can be good in the future, I even paid for the development of a graphics engine that I can only use to play and not to create...so the people who is working with it keeps adding playable content to it so I and others can play with it. This is by far finished but after a couple of years is giving me what I though it could give and I am glad about that. Not sure how is it going to finish but my money was put in well use.

Having that in mind and coming back to our beloved mods...I know ,and you all may know, that there is a lot of work behind them, people puts tons of hours and sometimes resources of their own (their money) to make a 3D model playable in our game with its proper physics that you may like or not, but yet they worked in it.
Is it that bad to not support these guys who are making something for you to enjoy for a very long period of time?

With every graphical progress, 3D modelling and such require more quality, better details and of course more work.

I see this all like DLC´s, you have DLC´s there but it doesn´t mean you HAVE TO buy them...a lot of times you know what you are buying and sometimes you don´t. If the base game is good you actually buy the DLC´s because it can give you more of what you already had.

In the case of mods for a simulator the content should be good enough and deliver top notch quality in every aspect, but it can´t please everyone of course.
I think "demos" should be there if someone wants to charge us for their content. Even by knowing the hard work that it is behind a mod as I said earlier.

Also the prices should have in mind the possible quantity of users who can possibly buy it. Lower the price and more sales you get since people is used to not pay a thing. And a 3D model has a price between 100€ to 200€ or even more depending in the quality or the use of it. This is something that you made once and then A LOT of people can have it. You can´t sell it as it will be one customer for you to "recover your inversion". (inversion from the modder= human time/worked hours + software/skills)
If you put a higher price in a product that no one knows if it is going to be good or bad, and if after trying it you are not "convinced enough" but maybe you liked something about it (the quality of the modelling, the sounds or anything), at the end you won´t pay for it since the customer wants a proper feeling. But if the price is lower you have the possibility to sell it.

Pay or not pay?, let me try it, if I like it I will but have in mind every aspect of it since most of the people don´t judge what you done before trying to sell it.
Is fare to pay for something that it was very well done in the first place, licences are an issue and quite expensive today...we need something to value above that.

Hope people that still makes free mods and great ones, keep delivering the quality that they used to deliver since those mods are going to be played without thinking too much if they will be good or not related to the price...only for what a mod really is and should be.

Sorry for long post.

 

I would pay for a mod if it is worth it, I'm not stupid and not blinded by love

 

A little late in the discussion and have not read everything, but as far as paying for content go's it might no longer be a black& white thing. (either pay or don't, or demand payment or not) and we should be able to come up with multiple solutions.

For example, talking as a league admin, I would not pick a mod for our championships that involves members having to buy the mod, or else they can't participate. However it would be different If a modding-team would include certain benefits. our members donate for server costs etc, why not for mods?
So if our League would be able to purchase a mod, one purchase, spread privately within the league?
The League-prize would be higher then what a single client pays, but it would still be overall lower then having to 'force' 40+ members to all purchase the mod.

So the mod-team could service leagues at a reasonable prize. at the same time spread its popularity and most likely ensure future league-purchases. And not in the last place said league needing to push the mod, because it always needs more members. free advertising. More potential future clients.

Its not just as simple as slapping a prize to something, it has to make sense, modders need to draw in clients somehow so its not just a case of a individual users deciding whether they will be paying or not (for whatever reason), its also a case of how does a mod-team go about attracting new clients in a sensible and future proof manner.

It could work, especially for those whom play it smart and are able to provide content that is very good and at the same time make it interesting enough to consider a purchase. maybe provide a demo to test, provide updates or a service like helping out peeps having issues.

 

Cool idea.

 

The idea you mentioned is something that I'm toying with for our mods in the future including the CCM mod. My current idea (for leagues) as it stands is...

Leagues that run events using our mods in a free to join and play platform will be able to use any of our mods for free as long as they are registered and approved as a MAK-Corp certified league which is free to join.

Leagues that wish to run events using our mods under a paid format will be evaluated and quoted a seasonal fee to be able to use our mods. The reason I do not have a set price here is because pay to play leagues differ immensely. There are those small ones whose members pay to play and the money goes to server costs and the members are mostly friends who like to support their league. And then there are pay to play leagues that make money through sponsors, advertisements etc. It wouldn't be right to charge the same, so assessing the applicants is something we'll be doing when it comes to pay to play leagues.

For any companies wishing to use our products in simulator events which are pay to play, there will also be a fee. I have seen a couple simulator companies making money off our mods by running them on their simulators at various racing events around the world. One of which was making over 10,000 dollars per day using our F1 2007 mod. While we support free leagues and entities, we do a lot of work to see someone else making money off our work.

I agree with you that modders who do pay to play mods should try to form deals with leagues rather then force their members to buy the mod each. This can help both parties promote each other and help each other grow.

As for having pay to download mods. We have thought about it, but we haven't decided to develop anything in that genre as of yet. We haven't felt the need to as our other projects like the free mods, our game prototype and some other things unannounced are more of a priority for us. Having said that, I do still support payware mods as long as they don't infringe on any brands. I doubt anyone is stupid enough to do something like that and so far no one has so I think we're all good.

Bear in mind that my idea only covers leagues and companies. The public will be acquiring our mods for free. No payware stuff with us when it comes to mods for the foreseeable future.

 

How 'bout charge by the mile? Only half kidding. How 'bout demo that only works in practice? Or online? Or offline? Is there currently any solutions for demos other than betas?

 

ISI in the past had mentioned something about rF2 supporting demo style mods. For the life of me I cannot find the article but if ISI still plan on doing that, then that could be a method of doing it.

 

I think that is fair.

 

Yeah the whole thing behind the MAK-Corp Certified League is for us to know who is using our mods, and on the new site we're building, we will have a page where we will list all leagues that are certified linking back to them along with their language, what games and categories they run. This will allow us to provide more exposure to these leagues and give our mod players a place to see all the leagues that run our mods. It can help players find a league to play in that they may not have known existed, and it will help leagues acquire more players to fill out grids or make additional grids. Supporting each other is the best way in my view.

 

ty, Ill pass on.

 

Yes that would make good sense.

 

To sell a mod I would think the mod creator would have to obtain a license to sell the brand named vehicle and has to apply to (BMW. Audi, Ferrari etc) who ever and all those other legal stuff for the vehicle he or she is creating for sale..

 

honestly i hope rf2 does not become XBOX on steroids by having to pay for dlc with mods. It does look like it is going to head that way what a shame. IMHO i thought that iracing held that title.

 

I'd never presume others should just give me their work for free but I hope there are plenty of people out there who continue to give it to me for free. If not then oh well. ISI is bringing out a lot of great licensed content of their own that I'll be perfectly happy to drive without paying another dime.

I can't see this ever becoming a huge thing since charging for a mod with real cars in it could be a good way to get into a lawsuit and I doubt most license holders would want to even be bothered with signing an agreement with such a small entity as one mod group. It wouldn't be worth their time. Cease and Desist orders are rather easy to send though.

 

I only know of one mod(T5) that is charging for their mod. Pretty sure the manufacturers of said cars would be pretty pissed that someone is making money with their cars. Without permission. This is why we pay ISI for the sim for their said lisencing of their vehicles. I wont pay squat for a mod. Its not right. Most of the modders out there create for their passion of series, cars. Not to make money.

 

f1 ligue is a pay mod too.

Just saying...

 

Which is why I don't have it haha Plenty of free mods.
Just sayin

 

I see that some are testing some water with pay for Mods . I would pay for F1 if was like a Series say Golden Era for me 70's to 80's , would be big mod.

 

Recovered the thread. I also disagree with the payment mods. It will be the end of free modding?. It seems that the community is excited about paying for mods. Finally Wsgt2 mod will be free or in view of recent developments it will be a mod canceled or payment? . RMT spent years doing the mod. Why RMT will do it for free when others are charging?

 

Don't think it is the dead of rf2, more the start of a new era for modding. I see increasing mod QA by payware. If a mod is crap it won't gain money. The people intrested in making money with it, forced to reach and keep a QA level. I'm fine with it, people who put effort and much time in a project of high QA should get what they earn.