88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
What do you think happens at ISI when an employee needs legal software?
Am I the only one thinking payware could be rFactor2's death knell?
- Thread starter Marvin Morgan
- Start date
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
Dell had a whole line of laptops specifically for the 3D design community. Here's a shocker, you don't have to be at work with a laptop to use the software...Exactly, available at work, it would be really weird if I were to start modding at work, right?
You are wrong about what I'm worried about. Or, worried, is maybe a word not very fitting here. What I think is that to me, it's not worth paying for mediocre modelling and worse physics, even it's a couple of bucks, when we have some, to me, brilliant cars in rF2 already. Even more so, charging money for licensed content such as Formula 1 and DTM stuff is a dangerous hobby if you ask me, and if you're talking about being worried, this sort of stuff might damage our sim and the way we enjoy it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
And yes, it's always worth checking contracts that is for sure, one of the reasons I choose to work on Zolder is that it doesn't interfere with mine
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
Only the core programmers work from the ISI office. Car and track content is off site.
Spadge
Registered
Yeah, but I am encouraged to use it outside of work as much as possible because it is free training that the employer doesn't have to pay for. Problem is, anything I make with any of it belongs to my employer ...
It's not going to harm rFactor2. Just like it never harmed rFactor1. ISI's "don't care" policy ensures that it will not harm the sim; there is no perceived endorsement, nothing at all to do with ISI what their customers decide to do with their Sim in the same way that Microsoft are not held responsible for things written in Word.
If you don't like it, leave it on the side of your plate. There is no reason at all to get worked up about it. I won't be buying any of it, it's not an issue to me at all.
It's such a non-issue I don't know why so many people let themselves froth at the mouth over it to the point where they get banned from the forum. It just seems so petty and stupid to me. We should be racing stuff that we *do* like, and having fun. Not pointing fingers and calling names over some imagined slight or disagreement over alleged principles.
Nothing to see here, move along
Diablo
Registered
Having access to the software at work is perfectly fine, so long as you do with it, what your employer pays you for. They tend to not like their employees doing anything else at the workplace. And unless that same employer let´s you work from home from time to time or fulltime, they would be pretty generous to give away thousands of <insert currency here> worth of software for private activities. And still, giving a license to an employee to work from home, I´m pretty sure, would imply to use it for their contractual obligation towards the employer and nothing else. But that´s a grey area then.
Cheers,
Marcus
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
That's not unusual. If you work for a sim racing company here, and attend a motorsport event as a fan. 50% ownership of photos you took could be argued owned by the employer, even if you paid for the ticket and trip yourself.Yeah, but I am encouraged to use it outside of work as much as possible because it is free training that the employer doesn't have to pay for. Problem is, anything I make with any of it belongs to my employer ...
Obviously they need the software to do their job.
Just to get things straight, I don't care about legal or illegal software, that was Satangoss I replied to where he called people hypocrits.
Didn't know that!
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
If you're this concerned about ownership rights. Using most free mods should be something you run screaming away from.
Rest assured that all content ISI produces does not infringe on anyone's Intellectual Property by using logos on the skin which are unapproved, or any car designs or branding use without licensing. I'm sure this sets your heart at ease.
The only other option I see which doesn't infringe IP, (except ISIs, which most mods do technically), are mods like the T5. So it's difficult for it to be argued one is right or another right.
Rest assured that all content ISI produces does not infringe on anyone's Intellectual Property by using logos on the skin which are unapproved, or any car designs or branding use without licensing. I'm sure this sets your heart at ease.
The only other option I see which doesn't infringe IP, (except ISIs, which most mods do technically), are mods like the T5. So it's difficult for it to be argued one is right or another right.
Ryno917
Registered
Exactly, available at work, it would be really weird if I were to start modding at work, right?
You are wrong about what I'm worried about. Or, worried, is maybe a word not very fitting here. What I think is that to me, it's not worth paying for mediocre modelling and worse physics, even it's a couple of bucks, when we have some, to me, brilliant cars in rF2 already. Even more so, charging money for licensed content such as Formula 1 and DTM stuff is a dangerous hobby if you ask me, and if you're talking about being worried, this sort of stuff might damage our sim and the way we enjoy it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
And yes, it's always worth checking contracts that is for sure, one of the reasons I choose to work on Zolder is that it doesn't interfere with mine
I've never, ever, had a contract that stated everything I do with company equipment is company property. Every contract I've ever signed says that what I work on for the contracts the company has is the property of the company until it is given to the client, at which point it is the property of the client. If I work on something that is not one of their contracts, whether it be in the office or at home on my legal, at home license of the softwares I use professionally, it is mine. I've never seen any contract that says different.
Marvin Morgan
Registered
Well the thing is in the U.S. ,whether correct or not, it's the thought that using a company's resources on a personal project opens that project up to be partly or whole owned by the company. But even if there isn't much legal standing a company can litigate you to death and wind up snatching your project anyway if they feel it's lucrative.
Marvin Morgan
Registered
Welcome to America
1959nikos
Registered
Ive seen both.
Most of my employers encouraged me to do my own projects, as this would/did give me more experience.
These were mostly small situations, with no more than ten employees.
In big firms they dont really like that, as they want you to be available anytime there is an emergency.
Also in big firms you are assigned to specific work, so they dont care for your overall knowledge, they prefer you to focus in a small area of the project.
As for the use of the software, that is up to employers good will and sensibility, Ive seen both worlds too.
@pay2021
That's because we don't have money after paying everything else.
Yes, we pay for the game, and more than other games, so why we could pay more for more content ? Why this content is not just in the game at the beggining ? That's because today we want to earn more money, so we don't allow people who pay the game to use content if they don't pay more after. So we gonna pay 100$ at the end instead of the half.
Made it like it need to be: Only free DLC. rFactor 1 was full of magnificient free mods, why dou you want us to pay for rFactor 2 mods, just because we are few years later and everybody else doing that ?
That's because we don't have money after paying everything else.
Yes, we pay for the game, and more than other games, so why we could pay more for more content ? Why this content is not just in the game at the beggining ? That's because today we want to earn more money, so we don't allow people who pay the game to use content if they don't pay more after. So we gonna pay 100$ at the end instead of the half.
Made it like it need to be: Only free DLC. rFactor 1 was full of magnificient free mods, why dou you want us to pay for rFactor 2 mods, just because we are few years later and everybody else doing that ?
PMC
Registered
I think it comes down to principle and how we feel about how the sim racing community should be.
Do we really expect to pay for everything in life or should we share life, hmm deep.
I can understand peoples need to make money or atleast cover there cost's but I don't think people expect to pay third parties for content for a game they have already purchased.
I myself would not buy a mod merely out of principle . I would donate to modders for good work if I could afford it ,but geez there's some good modder's and a lot of 'em.
Donations are the way to go, and sooner or later you can get the mod anyway
Do we really expect to pay for everything in life or should we share life, hmm deep.
I can understand peoples need to make money or atleast cover there cost's but I don't think people expect to pay third parties for content for a game they have already purchased.
I myself would not buy a mod merely out of principle . I would donate to modders for good work if I could afford it ,but geez there's some good modder's and a lot of 'em.
Donations are the way to go, and sooner or later you can get the mod anyway
pay2021
Registered
Human, looks this situation like when you grow up, at the beginnig your parents pay for your food, clothes, etc, then you grow up, you start a job then you pay for your stuff, i see this in that way, the comunity is "growing up", literaly most of the modders of rf1 era grow up and have things to aford and if they want money for their work they are in total right of do it.
Of course, is my perspective and maybe im grong.
Then comes the question, as PMC quotes, if the "mod ready" or "mod based" software is a good idea, i ask my self if i want to buy a base software then buy an aditional, why not comes all in one package as the traditional software? warning, when i know rf1 i thought that was the mos great idea the posibility of you can mod the game, just now i ask my self if this is what i want or if this is useful for me.
Last edited by a moderator:
Foxiol
Registered
At first I was one of those who don´t like the idea of paying for mods...I mean come on they don´t have a real licence of the cars who at least can assure you that the content "is loyal" to the real one, and of course how can we know if the physics are also realistic?...
Well, in a world of simulation in where top of the line simulators are similar, but yet different between each others talking about FFB, physics and overall feelings...how can we know which one is the best, or which one is giving us the most realistic simulation?
We can´t know that, we just like one more than the others, we prefer the one that suit our driving style the most or the one that you or me, or whoever think that is the best or gives the best feelings depending in what you want/like.
We know what we personally speaking prefer, and that is what we at the end of the day like and buy. Am I correct?
Right, with that said...A mod can be good or also can be bad. In both ways it can be good or bad for ones and not for others, so it is subjective to what each individual prefer.
Well, I am a guy who cares about quality products, if I pay it has to be good...if not forget it. But I am also a guy who likes to "support" stuff in general, mostly if it is related to gaming which is my main hobby. (simulation is a part of the same for me)
I use to support what I think it can be good, or something that it is actually good...the same as happened the day rFactor 2 started with the beta and I paid for it not knowing exactly if the game at the end is going to be that good or not. But in this case of course the name of it, the prestige and all the promise had a great impact in that decision.
I also use to support a lot of development projects that I think they can be good in the future, I even paid for the development of a graphics engine that I can only use to play and not to create...so the people who is working with it keeps adding playable content to it so I and others can play with it. This is by far finished but after a couple of years is giving me what I though it could give and I am glad about that. Not sure how is it going to finish but my money was put in well use.
Having that in mind and coming back to our beloved mods...I know ,and you all may know, that there is a lot of work behind them, people puts tons of hours and sometimes resources of their own (their money) to make a 3D model playable in our game with its proper physics that you may like or not, but yet they worked in it.
Is it that bad to not support these guys who are making something for you to enjoy for a very long period of time?
With every graphical progress, 3D modelling and such require more quality, better details and of course more work.
I see this all like DLC´s, you have DLC´s there but it doesn´t mean you HAVE TO buy them...a lot of times you know what you are buying and sometimes you don´t. If the base game is good you actually buy the DLC´s because it can give you more of what you already had.
In the case of mods for a simulator the content should be good enough and deliver top notch quality in every aspect, but it can´t please everyone of course.
I think "demos" should be there if someone wants to charge us for their content. Even by knowing the hard work that it is behind a mod as I said earlier.
Also the prices should have in mind the possible quantity of users who can possibly buy it. Lower the price and more sales you get since people is used to not pay a thing. And a 3D model has a price between 100€ to 200€ or even more depending in the quality or the use of it. This is something that you made once and then A LOT of people can have it. You can´t sell it as it will be one customer for you to "recover your inversion". (inversion from the modder= human time/worked hours + software/skills)
If you put a higher price in a product that no one knows if it is going to be good or bad, and if after trying it you are not "convinced enough" but maybe you liked something about it (the quality of the modelling, the sounds or anything), at the end you won´t pay for it since the customer wants a proper feeling. But if the price is lower you have the possibility to sell it.
Pay or not pay?, let me try it, if I like it I will but have in mind every aspect of it since most of the people don´t judge what you done before trying to sell it.
Is fare to pay for something that it was very well done in the first place, licences are an issue and quite expensive today...we need something to value above that.
Hope people that still makes free mods and great ones, keep delivering the quality that they used to deliver since those mods are going to be played without thinking too much if they will be good or not related to the price...only for what a mod really is and should be.
Sorry for long post.
Well, in a world of simulation in where top of the line simulators are similar, but yet different between each others talking about FFB, physics and overall feelings...how can we know which one is the best, or which one is giving us the most realistic simulation?
We can´t know that, we just like one more than the others, we prefer the one that suit our driving style the most or the one that you or me, or whoever think that is the best or gives the best feelings depending in what you want/like.
We know what we personally speaking prefer, and that is what we at the end of the day like and buy. Am I correct?
Right, with that said...A mod can be good or also can be bad. In both ways it can be good or bad for ones and not for others, so it is subjective to what each individual prefer.
Well, I am a guy who cares about quality products, if I pay it has to be good...if not forget it. But I am also a guy who likes to "support" stuff in general, mostly if it is related to gaming which is my main hobby. (simulation is a part of the same for me)
I use to support what I think it can be good, or something that it is actually good...the same as happened the day rFactor 2 started with the beta and I paid for it not knowing exactly if the game at the end is going to be that good or not. But in this case of course the name of it, the prestige and all the promise had a great impact in that decision.
I also use to support a lot of development projects that I think they can be good in the future, I even paid for the development of a graphics engine that I can only use to play and not to create...so the people who is working with it keeps adding playable content to it so I and others can play with it. This is by far finished but after a couple of years is giving me what I though it could give and I am glad about that. Not sure how is it going to finish but my money was put in well use.
Having that in mind and coming back to our beloved mods...I know ,and you all may know, that there is a lot of work behind them, people puts tons of hours and sometimes resources of their own (their money) to make a 3D model playable in our game with its proper physics that you may like or not, but yet they worked in it.
Is it that bad to not support these guys who are making something for you to enjoy for a very long period of time?
With every graphical progress, 3D modelling and such require more quality, better details and of course more work.
I see this all like DLC´s, you have DLC´s there but it doesn´t mean you HAVE TO buy them...a lot of times you know what you are buying and sometimes you don´t. If the base game is good you actually buy the DLC´s because it can give you more of what you already had.
In the case of mods for a simulator the content should be good enough and deliver top notch quality in every aspect, but it can´t please everyone of course.
I think "demos" should be there if someone wants to charge us for their content. Even by knowing the hard work that it is behind a mod as I said earlier.
Also the prices should have in mind the possible quantity of users who can possibly buy it. Lower the price and more sales you get since people is used to not pay a thing. And a 3D model has a price between 100€ to 200€ or even more depending in the quality or the use of it. This is something that you made once and then A LOT of people can have it. You can´t sell it as it will be one customer for you to "recover your inversion". (inversion from the modder= human time/worked hours + software/skills)
If you put a higher price in a product that no one knows if it is going to be good or bad, and if after trying it you are not "convinced enough" but maybe you liked something about it (the quality of the modelling, the sounds or anything), at the end you won´t pay for it since the customer wants a proper feeling. But if the price is lower you have the possibility to sell it.
Pay or not pay?, let me try it, if I like it I will but have in mind every aspect of it since most of the people don´t judge what you done before trying to sell it.
Is fare to pay for something that it was very well done in the first place, licences are an issue and quite expensive today...we need something to value above that.
Hope people that still makes free mods and great ones, keep delivering the quality that they used to deliver since those mods are going to be played without thinking too much if they will be good or not related to the price...only for what a mod really is and should be.
Sorry for long post.