Will existing cars be updated with the new tires?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by avenger82, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    No, of course ! :)

    But except big mistake of S397, the new tires are always more realistic.

    And we all want the greatest realism !

    In addition, you have probably noticed the significant "realism" improvement (realism impression, feeling improvement etc) between the tires made in 2015/2016 and the tires present at the exit of the RS3 or GT3 for example ?
    The improvement also with the latest tires of the GTE / GT3 ?

    The improvement is significant.

    For people who want the greatest realism (realusm impression if you prefer), why not wish that the official quality cars, which are really numerous, do not have a deep update related to the Physics novelties (tires but not only) ?

    Delivering so many quality cars is really a pity.

    Following this great update, an update could take place every 2 years for example (all cars).
     
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  2. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Rf2 doesn’t copy and paste physics or tyre iterations unlike some games,so it take a lot more devtime to do so.

    Personally I’d like them to consentrate in new content, then when contracts slow down, revisit some older contents
     
  3. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    I wouldn't call the GTE tires an improvement at this point.
    My limited testing so far has uncovered some things I do not like and that are not in line with real-life slicks which, yes, I have raced a lot.
    There seems to be a shift of focus from temps to wear, in other words the tire loses grip significantly as it wears instead of losing performance from overheating instead.
    It is my intention to make a thorough post about this but only after our GTE season has got under way and I have amassed enough miles in the car to be certain about my findings.
     
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  4. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    If I understood correctly it is not possible in rf2 just to copy and paste tires from one car to another even for cars that are able to switch tires IRL?
     
  5. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    That's more or less what I wrote in my first post, despite exactly what "dialing in" means, is still not clear to me. From what I recall from conversations with modders each tires update require some physics tuning/changes(and no matter if tire is new and car is old like Camaro GT3 or C6R). Even the new GTE tires needed to be "implemented" into GT3s (plus testing, BOP).
    IIRC exception was latest tires update in GP3 mod where @Slow Motion said it didn't require whole physics tuning and typical re-testing.
    I get it, but to some extent it's possible in AC. Like I said at least you can easily upgrade tires in AC (i.e. with latest tire model). Not sure if such mod would still handle as expected. I think some day (20+ years) sims will essentially allow that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  6. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    That's right, unfortunately
     
  7. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    It is, if you make sure to copy all neccessary values, the result will most prob. not be desired though - depending on what you define as "able to"
     
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  8. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    They are not improvement over the old ones in the Camaro GT3? I think @Michael Borda would disagree.
    You mean you raced a lot in GT3 or GTE cars IRL? If that's really the case then tell physic's guys what exactly they got wrong(I'd would be surprised if you were right).
     
  9. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    All in good time, like I said I need to make sure my findings are correct.
    And the older tire model was correct in relating grip to temperature instead of wear.
    Race tires have roughly 90secs of extra performance in them when brand new, this is exploited by nailing your first lap in qualifying or when an F1 driver comes out of the pits they are able to immediately pull away from the car behind until about a lap later when that advantage is gone.
    After those first few seconds the tire drops to it's normal performance range where it stays until the end of it's life, until it reaches that cliff, regardless of how steep it may be, after which they need changing.
    During this period the levels of grip do not drop significantly-if at all, except if you overheat them.
    So in the old tire model, this was definitely the case.
    You got almost steady performance from the tire with only minimal grip loss throughout, you paid the penalty for overdriving and overheating them with significant loss of grip and ripped the rewards of taking care of them.
    Now I am not going to say that this is no more because this may be GTE tire specific, that they seem to lose grip rapidly with wear and are difficult to overheat.
    If indeed true because I need more testing for evaluation.
    I think once I have more testing data later in our season , the easiest thing is to discuss it on Discord with the devs and maybe get a response that will put my mind to peace.
    Cheers.
     
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  10. Stevy

    Stevy Registered

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    Will existing cars be updated with the new tires?
    I hope so, but probably no
     
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  11. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    I considered RF2 the best sim also before the GT3 pack so before the new TM, so I'm going on to have fun with skip hondabtcc clio nissan etc etc. Anyway I agree the Studio 397 contents should be at the same standard of development. I am just curious on the christos_Swc arguments on the new TM
     
  12. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    After listening to an interview of an german GT3 Driver of the ADAC GT Masters i can´t confirm that. The tyres have a performance drop over the whole 1 hour lasting stint. By the way, there are so many tyre constructions and kinds of rubber, so that this can never be generalized
     
  13. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    Which we are several who can't recognize, overdriving the car and tyres WILL overheat them and increase pressure, causing loss of grip.
     
  14. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    There is also another aspect: braking with locked wheels. I prefer the old one, because it's more unstable, more challenging. locked wheels with EGT and thé car remain in the line
     
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  15. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    You mean snap oversteer when locking wheels? That is especially easy with Flat 6 but also in many official cars? If yes then isn’t it more related with overall physics, car setup(brake bias, brake pressure, down force), weight distribution etc.?
     
  16. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    Yes that, porsche gte, brake power at 100% and bias at 51 and the car is stable...maybe there is a lot of rear downforce, maybe it is realistic, I dont know, I cant argue about it, it was only a my thinking:)
     
  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    If by saying GTE tires are not improvement you specifically mean this (quicker drop in grip levels, difficult to overheat) then it well may be the case, especially the latter. But I meant general realism, how they behave at and over the limit , when and how traction is lost, how the regrip. But of course this also depends on car so it’s hard to isolate behavior.
     
  18. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Yeah also it's depends on tire pressure, car used, car setup, driving style, Soft vs Medium vs Hard.
    But IDK maybe @christos_Swc is actually right about that.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    All TGM tyres have 3 grip loss factors (regarding the rubber only):
    1. Degradation from wear
    2. Degradation from temperature history (rubber hardening due to excessive temperatures), and
    3. Current temperature difference from optimum (StaticCurve)
    Their balance may have changed, but no doubt all 3 were factors and still are factors.


    As others have said, you're also making a very broad generalisation in saying that 'race' tyres have ~90 seconds of extra performance and then maintain their performance level until they rapidly drop off. I imagine in some contexts what you're describing is true, but in many others it won't be, and I'm not sure you should be expecting a particular mod to behave in that way (if it's not something you've personally driven).


    Also: the grip loss described above is all in the Realtime section and basically has nothing to do with tyre model improvements that have happened over rF2's lifetime.
     
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  20. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    I said I do not know if it is GTE tire specific, meaning it may not necessarily relate to the new tire model overall and also that it may be indeed a peculiarity of this type of construction.
    That's why I want to make sure first that I am right and then inquire about it on Discord.
    The wear-grip correlation I doubt is down to physics, I believe is a dev choice, a relation that can be manipulated easily at will by the developers.
    The "90 second window" (roughly I said), is just what a brand new tire is about, they perform above spec for a very short period of time.
    What do you mean by "generalization" that this is not always true or that the window is incorrect?
    There's a reason racers use brand new tires for quali and there's a reason they often use scrubbed tires for the actual race.
    I can go even further to say that the brand new performs exactly how it looks like, like glass, it is as slippery as it is shiny but that shiny surface is scrubbed off within a few meters or within a few hundred meters depending on weight of vehicle, pressure, hardness of rubber, road conditions, construction etc etc.
    Yes, understeering off in the first corner at snail's pace on brand new slicks on a humid cold day, I am talking from personal experience.
    I doubt a heavy GTE car would ever notice though, yeah, I know that you have to factor in a lot of variables for every case.

    @WiZPER GTE tires are not immune to overheating but apparently it takes a lot more to overheat them than what I have always been used to from every RF2 car I have driven previously and they are much easier to cool down, vs the older cars in the sim and, of course, the GT3s, at least the GT3s with the previous iteration of tires that I raced.
    You'd probably agree were really easy to overheat their tires, those cars gave the word "overdriving" a completely new meaning.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018

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