Will existing cars be updated with the new tires?

A

avenger82

Registered
It seems the latest updates to CPM tire model were quite significant. According to latest blog they were tuned even further (GTE Pack).
I'm aware in rF2 it's not that simple to replace existing tires with new ones, because it needs to be tested and probably other car physics' parameters need to be updated/tuned to make sure handling is realistic.

But wouldn't it be possible to add the new tires at least as an (non-default) option without comprehensive testing and tuning?

Some cars could really benefit i.e. Camaro GT3 has quite old tires that slide much more than the ones in GT3 Pack. Don't know if GTE tires would also fit in other GT cars like C6R and Nissan GT1.
Also AFAIK the newest GTE tires are not available in reference S397 examples database, so that modders can't use them yet.

I wish is was so easy as in AC where with Content Manager users can easily find and replace tires for a car (usually from a same car in a class but with latest tire model)
 
It's not as easy as in AC, because that's not how tyres work IRL either. New CMP tyres has to be re-rendered AND tested to suit each individual car.
 
WiZPER said:
It's not as easy as in AC, because that's not how tyres work IRL either. New CMP tyres has to be re-rendered AND tested to suit each individual car.
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They need to be re-rendered for each car even when taken from the official example database(
https://docs.studio-397.com/developers-guide/cars/car-physics/tyre-database)
?
Also IRL you can easily stick tires from other (similar) car. In rF2 GT3 cars got the same tires from GTEs, granted I've read they were tested, whatever that means.
 
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But Clios and classic F1s don't use those tyres, so those have to be re-rendered and tested. As I recall your question was wether existing cars would get an update. Would the GTE tyres suit the Camaro, possibly - but it may also need new approval to suit license agreements etc.
 
If the official content ISI/S397 included a majority of "average" cars or "not good", I would understand perfectly that S397 chooses to update only a few good cars only.

But the opposite is true :
At least 90% of ISI/S397 cars are of high or very high quality (some can even be described as exceptional) :
So yes, I find it more than a pity to leave everything this content almost to get old.

Moreover S397 seems to prefer to update the graphic effects (rain) rather than update the cars with the "latest technologies associated with physics": that is a pity.

The recent content of S397 is incredible, really.
Nevertheless I would find it better to completely update the existing content, and make these new mods a few months later.

The content of RF2 is completely NOT homogeneous (I am talking about the official content).

Greatly that changes.
 
There may be a tire model update after this, then another one etc it never ends and so there's no point.
If you told people to drive an RF2 can and tell you if it's using an old or latest tire model I bet they would fail miserably in telling the difference, at least from the handling.
 
WiZPER said:
But Clios and classic F1s don't use those tyres, so those have to be re-rendered and tested. As I recall your question was wether existing cars would get an update.
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I particularly meant all cars in similar class could share the latest sets if possible (i.e. Camaro GT3, C6R). But of course I wouldn't mind if eventually all cars will be updated to latest tire CPM:) (but I know that, this would mean re-compiling and testing tires, so it's not likely in near future).
I've read GP3 mod is using latest tech tires based on real confidential data from Pirelli and if I'm not mistaken they will also be used in some official car.
 
christos_Swc said:
There may be a tire model update after this, then another one etc it never ends and so there's no point.
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I disagree. Lately there's been significant upgrades (CPM v2, GTE realated). I'm saying cars should have tire upgrade each iteration like i.e. in AC. Especially I know it's not that simple in rF2, but as said if tires are ready and can be shared with similar old cars.

christos_Swc said:
If you told people to drive an RF2 can and tell you if it's using an old or latest tire model I bet they would fail miserably in telling the difference, at least from the handling.
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Then try Camaro and then any of GT3 Pack cars and tell me you don't notice a difference in tire behavior.

Edit: I wanted to say : I'm *not* saying cars should have tire upgrade each iteration like i.e. in AC.
 
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avenger82 said:
I disagree. Lately there's been significant upgrades (CPM v2, GTE realated). I'm saying cars should have tire upgrade each iteration like i.e. in AC. Especially I know it's not that simple in rF2
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I do not agree either.

On the other hand to update the cars with each physics technological advance is not necessarily feasible.

On the other hand, not to make an update with the last technological physics advances say every 2 years approximately, would be and is currently a monumental error IMO.

I would not say that if the official content prior to S397 was only "average", but most of it is excellent ...... Too bad!
 
DrivingFast said:
I do not agree either.
On the other hand to update the cars with each physics technological advance is not necessarily feasible.
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Yeah I agree. Regarding tires I meant to say: "I'm *not* saying cars should have tire upgrade each iteration like i.e. in AC."
But if upgraded tires are already made and there are compatible cars than you'd think it's not that time consuming and worth effort(testing).
Ideally tires could be also re-compiled for other cars, but that would take much more resources.

I'm pretty sure whole physics upgrades would be much more hard and time consuming, that's why I even didn't raise that issue:)
With small team you can't expect everything at once. But I personally would trade less of new cars or tracks for physics upgrades to existing cars.
 
avenger82 said:
Then try Camaro and then any of GT3 Pack cars and tell me you don't notice a difference in tire behavior.
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Different cars have different tire characteristics anyway.
Do the Radical SR3 tires or the latest Brabham/March slicks have anything in common in how they behave with the GTs?
And say that the Camaro's tires behave differently.
Is that a bad thing and in need of an update for being different?
 
christos_Swc said:
If you told people to drive an RF2 can and tell you if it's using an old or latest tire model I bet they would fail miserably in telling the difference, at least from the handling.
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Infact often people are asking if that car has or not the new tires, but if they cant notice it the question becomes pointless, it is like a daltonic asking if that car is red. I drive the skip but I dont know if it has the new or the old tires.
By the way, what are the differences
 
christos_Swc said:
Do the Radical SR3 tires or the latest Brabham/March slicks have anything in common in how they behave with the GTs?
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Who suggested that? Please read my post |(carefully) before posting. In my first post I gave example of a cars that could(optionally) use GTE tires:

avenger82 said:
Some cars could really benefit i.e. Camaro GT3 has quite old tires that slide much more than the ones in GT3 Pack. Don't know if GTE tires would also fit in other GT cars like C6R and Nissan GT1.
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I said I wasn't sure if the exact tires could fit to C6R and Nissan GT1, so I don't know what you mean comparing March to GTE tires.
If you ask about tire model - is the same for all cars.

christos_Swc said:
Is that a bad thing and in need of an update for being different?
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You're kidding right? But perhaps you missed it too:
avenger82 said:
It seems the latest updates to CPM tire model were quite significant. According to latest blog they were tuned even further (GTE Pack).
Click to expand...
So the quick answer: yes it is.
But I will bend over backwards and explain it a little further.
The reason is because there were flaws in QSA model. In general since introduction of CPM there were many significant updates, as real accurate data was acquired(again see the officialblog entries) . The results of all this work are updates to tire model and particularly the tires build for GTE and GT3 Packs. I mean it's like arguing whether there's a point in upgrading from DX9 to DX11(other than associated cost).
 
avenger82 said:
Who suggested that? Please read my post |(carefully) before posting. In my first post I gave example of a cars that could(optionally) use GTE tires:



I said I wasn't sure if the exact tires could fit to C6R and Nissan GT1, so I don't know what you mean comparing March to GTE tires.
If you ask about tire model - is the same for all cars.


You're kidding right? But perhaps you missed it too:

So the quick answer: yes it is.
But I will bend over backwards and explain it a little further.
The reason is because there were flaws in QSA model. In general since introduction of CPM there were many significant updates, as real accurate data was acquired(again see the officialblog entries) . The results of all this work are updates to tire model and particularly the tires build for GTE and GT3 Packs. I mean it's like arguing whether there's a point in upgrading from DX9 to DX11(other than associated cost).
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Don't think you understand here.
First off, why would you blame me for putting more weight behind the title in of your thread vs the examples you brought up and now seem to focus entirely on, the GT cars.
Second, the March/Radical examples were obviously related to the-being able to tell what cpm you are driving on by the behavior of the tires-discussion.
It highlights the fact that car handling differences (and yes, how much a car is sliding around) cannot be used as reliable means of evaluating the version of tires you are driving on.
Last but not least, I recently had the chance to race for the first time one of the oldest RF2 mods, the Ferrari 458.
The handling was awesome and no one would care about the CPM until the moment they were told "did you know this car has the older cpm?".
I need not be explained what the upgrades to the latest cpm are, the major update came with the release of the GT3 pack (and a thorough analysis of it) and there was a smaller update released with the GTE pack.
So when would they update the older cars, before or after the very latest cpm update.
And if they decided they can do further tweaks to the cpm model would they even dare to bring them out when everyone would expect them to -again- update the older content with them.
So is it important that they update their older content with the new cpm?
Well, not to me no, especially seeing as the new cpm brings,supposedly, more realism, it does however not add anything to the experience the older cars need.
If all you want to focus on are the older GT3s then there's no point in discussing further, you might want to change the title of the thread though to avoid misleading anyone else.
 
christos_Swc said:
Don't think you understand here.
First off, why would you blame me for putting more weight behind the title in of your thread vs the examples you brought up and now seem to focus entirely on, the GT cars.
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This tells me some people don't read posts(only title) before replying because I explained:
avenger82 said:
I'm aware in rF2 it's not that simple to replace existing tires with new ones, because it needs to be tested and probably other car physics' parameters need to be updated/tuned to make sure handling is realistic.

But wouldn't it be possible to add the new tires at least as an (non-default) option without comprehensive testing and tuning?
Click to expand...
So in other words I said knew it's not that simple for majority of cars, but asked if compatible cars could use the ones (implicitly from GTEs) without comprehensive testing. After that I gave examples you mentioned. But maybe the title was a bit misleading. I should be more like if some cars will be updated.
christos_Swc said:
I recently had the chance to race for the first time one of the oldest RF2 mods, the Ferrari 458. The handling was awesome and no one would care about the CPM until the moment they were told "did you know this car has the older cpm?".
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How do you know handling is awesome? Have you raced similar car IRL? And who asked "did you know this car has the older cpm?"?

christos_Swc said:
It highlights the fact that car handling differences (and yes, how much a car is sliding around) cannot be used as reliable means of evaluating the version of tires you are driving on.
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Why not?

christos_Swc said:
and there was a smaller update released with the GTE pack
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They were not that small. But again I said I don't expect update each tire model iteration like in AC.

christos_Swc said:
Well, not to me no, especially seeing as the new cpm brings,supposedly, more realism, it does however not add anything to the experience the older cars need.
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That's your opinion. They objectively bring more realism. Ask physics devs if you don't believe me.
 
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oppolo said:
Infact often people are asking if that car has or not the new tires, but if they cant notice it the question becomes pointless, it is like a daltonic asking if that car is red. I drive the skip but I dont know if it has the new or the old tires.
By the way, what are the differences
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Even if people don't know by feel what tires are the new ones and what the old ones, the question is relevant in my opinion.
Most of us can't say by feel which cars are more realistic and which less realistic, because we don't have real world experience of these cars, but we still want the cars to be as realistic as possible. In this case the assumption is that the new tires are more realistic than the old ones.
 
avenger82 said:
So in other words I said knew it's not that simple for majority of cars, but asked if compatible cars could use the ones (implicitly from GTEs) without comprehensive testing.
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Probably not. I'd imagine if you fit a different tire on an old car it can fundamentally change the balance, so it may need what is called "dialing in". It's not usually as simple as just plugging in a new component and expecting it to work in a balanced way based on data. Otherwise you could just build a sim car based on specs from manufacturer and discard testing phase. It never works out that way in practice.
 
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