Will existing cars be updated with the new tires?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by avenger82, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yes, that would be the (1) that I talked about. There's also (2) and (3), which are the other things. Nothing to do with the model.

    That it's not always true, that a tire has extra performance for a time and then drops to it's normal performance range where it stays until the end of it's life (your words).
     
  2. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Yes,possibly the real-world GTE tires have that sort of characteristic, dropping off rapidly with wear.
    This is not only something unexpected based on my own experience but also a first in RF2.
    So first step, do some sim racing with them.
    I am very conscious of the merits of following a good strategy and after a few races I will naturally find the best tire strategy for our 90 min races, then I will know, then I will inquire.
     
  3. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I didn't know that. So even if tire wear actually turns out to be incorrect(or partially incorrect) then it only would apply to GTE ( and GT3) Pack. Other cars that use the same tire model (upcoming cars and perhaps March and Brabham) have different Realtime values.
     
  4. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Yes, that has always been the case.
    In free mods, official or 3rd party that are not encrypted you can see these values using carstat and see the differences.
    You will notice that the drop in performance with wear is usually low or minimal.
    People think it is wear that is slowing them down when in fact it is their tires overheating, first and foremost.
    The numbers of how much rubber you have left on the bottom right of your screen are not an indication of grip.
    These numbers are most useful in evaluating handling more than anything else.
    Interestingly, I remembered an exception of sorts, we were doing ovals in the Dissenter.
    Those old cars were on brick tires and a few laps of racing only got them down to 99%.
    Still, that 1% made a big difference in grip, so much so that you had to take tires every caution otherwise you would drop like a rock on the restart!
     
  5. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    In reality, it's even more complex. The thickness of the rubber layer does indeed play a role in the grip because the thinner it is, the faster the tyre cools down on the straights. So you tend to have problems with tyres that are too cold when they are worn out. I think Live for Speed simulates this aspect as the only simulation. And as for the grip loss on the dissender, I'm sure it was the air pressure of the tires and not the wear and that's exactly the problem with the Gte . If you push the tyres too hard, the air pressure increases and you lose grip with each additional lap. Wear Leveliis not essentially in that case
     
  6. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    From what I’ve read, heat is the number factor with regards to how grip is effected.
    Even though there is no tread so to say on slicks, there is still a thickness of rubber, which I will call tread, as this thickness of rubber gets worn away so too the movement of the tread gets less and less, which Will lower the treads grip potential, and through the lower grip you get more sliding and hotter temps,so they are both linked, but temp is the overriding factor which causes the later.

    That’s not my opinion but just what I’ve read

    In f1 they have a sudden drop off because this rubber has gotten to a point where it’s so thin you’re basically running on the carcass, which doesn’t have the same sheer or cooling properties to provide grip as rubber does

    I’d have thought up until the point where the tread is so thin the cliff hits you, uneven wear across the tyre would be the biggest factor for the grip-wear connection, but as always I’m usually wrong
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  7. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    It's a bit off topic because I don't think it's caused by tires, but I also noticed it's harder to lock wheels, and even when locked cars are stable as you said(no snap oversteer) and you only get understeer, or at worst cars go straight and FFB gets weak when reached low speed.
    But it may be more or less realistic behavior for front-heavy cars (it's closer to AC with similar cars). But yeah it also bugs me if it's realistic.
     
  8. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    ...and that is exactly one of my personal reasons (even maseratis of the 50s go straight in that situation) that make me to feel waste of time to drive AC when comparing to the studio397's beauty.
    Front heavy cars? Then shouldnt they lift the rear end when hard braking and consequently having snap oversteer?
    Also URD's cars behaviour with snap oversteer.
    As I said I cant feel confortable to judge about the phisic, maybe modern EGT behaviour exactly as they do in rf2, and it is only a personal opinion to take more pleasure driving for example a nissan 370 gt4 but for sure I am going on to drive EGT and GT3...as I said it was only a my thinking without any pretension to direct the speech in any direction.
    Anyway now I am curious to find out differences, is there a list of cars with the new tyre model?
     
  9. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    You probably haven't seen this video of pro driver, here's where he starts to talk about it's oversteer:


    It looks like S397 have updated GT3 physics because, apparently back then the car would snap oversteer:


    As you said now it no longer have this behavior
    I didn't have GT3 Pack back then but I've read FFB also changed:
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/mercedes-amg-gt3-weird-ffb.61011/
     
  10. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    The Pro driver forgott to activate the anti lock brakes something that his real car has That's the reason He had to talk about a loose rear and not because He is so pro. He was a Rfactor 2 noob and it was the first time driving it without any adjustments. Not a prope base to judge physics
     
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  11. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    If RF2 was designed smarter, ABS, TC etc would not need to be manually activated. It shouldnt be the job for the user to google settings and adjust accordingly for every car he drives. I really hope this will change with the new UI.
     
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  12. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    It's what I commented below his video back then, but recently it actually has been done for the GTE and GT3(real assists, plus separate per car adjustments).
    The fact that enabling ABS, or moving brake bias forward, used to solve the issue in rF2, it doesn't mean his comments weren't valid. I mean perhaps even with such setup the real car wouldn't snap-oversteer, but behave more like in current rF2 build(basically go straight). Since you no longer get this behavior in AMG GT3 (or any GT3 in the pack) one could say now it's more realistic(and according to Jan Seyffarth expectations). Of course we should consider other variables: different default car setups (between these rf2 builds and Jan's setup), track conditions etc.
    But who knows, maybe in reality it's somewhere in between. Especially because now the GT3 cars are very stable when braking hard even with max brake pressure (of course ABS off) etc.
     
  13. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    And that has what to do with the topic her
    But that's exactly what it means. If a vehicle has ABS in real life and is only driven with ABS, then no one can agree on a realistic implementation of a simulation if they have just deactivated ABS in the simulation. The vehicles are designed in their tuning to use the ABS, so it is not surprising that the setup does not work without it.
    I don't think much of the gentleman from the video anyway, because his expertise isn't very high. He may be able to drive, but technical backgrounds are rather poor. He also wanted to tell his audience in a video that harder springs at the front reduce the understeer.
     
  14. oppolo

    oppolo Registered

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    GT3 has 12 steps of ABS from 1(off) to 12. So I suppose GT3 can be driven without ABS also irl
     
  15. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Whether it is considered realistic or not, driving a car in simulation using ABS and TC has almost no interest for me (not to say no interest). But everyone does what he wants.
     
  16. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    they don´t do it because it makes no sence and its not proofen that wether if its possible in real life.
     
  17. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    They do in gravel traps (low friction automatically is considered slip and therefore TC engages and a slim chance of getting out of it gets even slimmer) and when they want to spin the car if they get 180 deg spin. They usually don't go through steps one by one till they reach off, they usually have a button that disengages TC entirely for a brief moment allowing them to do whatever they want with driven wheels. But if you don't have such a button, they go click by click to 0 (sometimes the highest number is the lowest setting too)
     
  18. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    I am talking about anti lock brakes and not about traction control. There is no reason to disable it because it would only generate disadvantages.
     
  19. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Oh, right. Sorry. Lots on my mind recently.

    Back to topic then, there are disadvantages of going too high on ABS too. With ABS just like with everything, truth lies somewhere in the middle. I can say yes that highly developed and tuned ABS system is always going to be an advantage over no abs. No doubt about that. However I can also positively say that having no ABS is sometimes better than having bad ABS. By bad ABS I mean ABS system that engages in wrong moments, badly timed kicks on brakes etc. It just puts you off and can affect your braking way more than no abs would.
     
  20. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    But i am really sure that modern Gt cars have not such a poor system
     
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