rF2 biggest challenger?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by taufikp, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. GaryL

    GaryL Registered

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    My own personal opinion is Ai are a total waste of the devs time and resources.
     
  2. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    What I think is that AI is a robot, in fact Speed Dreams and TORCS (open source sims) call AI robots, they even have competitions in robot developing and it might not harm to have a look around source of those for ideas.

    Limited cpu cycles are of course causing lot of limitations what can be done, also AI already does many good things, but I think that learning could be one of the things AI could do (or do more if it already does such).

    It is not as simple as make AI move left or right, far more complex and with limited cpu cycles there will always be imperfections.
    One way to understand what it is to make AI work is to look TORCS stuff, even though, there are already some basics ready so it really is far more complex than what is told in robot guide, but to get some idea what is involved I believe that is easiest way to gain understand of that.

    I tried to find link to his page that would of pointed to tutorial pages, but because his site is made like it is, there is no way to link there, but you can click torcs and then robot tutorial from main page
    http://www.berniw.org/

    Chapter 1, make it drive is perhaps place to look first, to save time. Now someone has had to already write up a ton of code so that one can find out car's position on track with single line of code, also in rF2 AI already works so most of that is already done.

    But look around and try to see what kind of areas are needed to make robot drive succesfully, what things would need to be changed to achieve better defensive driving while keeping in mind that cpu usage must be kept very low, you need to be able to run at least 20 of those AI dudes and ton of other stuff at the same time.

    Also here is tutorial in downloadable format:

    http://www.berniw.org/aboutme/publications/tutorial-0.tar.bz2


    I think that it is very easy to demand better AI, but it is very difficult when one needs to actually show better way of doing things. Also without some understanding of AI and it's effect to cpu load, it is fairly difficult to demand realistic improvements.

    Now one thing I have noticed is that when AI spins out and faces the wall, it reverses, and hits wall again, reason is that it forgets there being a wall and not quite be able to predict turning radius of car and closeness of wall, another situation is where AI driver switches between braking and accelerating constantly when driving near other car, but only solution I can think of would multiply number of cpu cycles needed for AI. Only way I could figure out how to improve that is to have AI 'simulate' driving before actually driving and it is bit of unacceptable solution as it will cause serious performance hit.

    Anyway I think that there could be simpler approach to that issue and I think that it can be that some of robot programming might have that solution.

    edit: One cool thing I learned because of this thread is that Microsoft has free robot simulation environment available and msdn has tutorial for robot stuff:
    https://www.microsoft.com/robotics/
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd939189.aspx

    I wonder if it would be possible to put few simulated robots to race around circuit and figure out how to make better AI :p
    Even if not, I believe that it might give good practice for me with C#.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2012
  3. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Interesting stuff here about AI hehe. I just have to add one little note to the robotic invasion theory. As long as humans strive to make computers better, faster and more capable of predicting our intentions, we will eventually seed an environment that has the potential for this to happen. It may take 100's or years or it might be just around the corner, but we probably won't see it. The other part of it is that we would have no way to predict the outcome of such a seed. It is possible that the robots might naturally evolve into being more of what we want instead of becoming obsessed with our extinction.

    Just my thoughts on that subject, carry on ;)
     
  4. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Also don't forget to add that there may be nothing online for car and track that you want to race or in your time zone, etc, etc, etc
     
  5. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    All this blahblah about AI, and only thing that you need to do is get it like it was in GP4 and camera function like in GP3 and its a win all around.
     
  6. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    +1 The only thing more ridiculous than the idea of two products is that anyone dignified this with a response. No offense DD as I agree with you often and you are an asset to the community but that sure is silly idea.
     
  7. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    Omg how did I miss this roflmao!!
     
  8. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    I absolutely agree with DD regarding aids. No place whatsoever in a sim for aids. Are any of you using aids?
     
  9. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    I thought that was what we ate doing now? Am I the only one with a pint right now?
     
  10. Kknorpp001

    Kknorpp001 Banned

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    It is already happening. Didn't you hear about the TiVo that thought it's owner was gay?
     
  11. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Many are saying that GP4 had the perfect AI. What made it so perfect? Why can't we implement the same AI behaviour to other games? AI racing is essential for me because the limited time I have for playing. I do not mind if AI is predictable as long as it has some variation and enough speed to make things challenging.
     
  12. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    F1 Challenge 99-02 and Nascar 2003 had a good AI, so I'm little baffled how come wouldnt ISI be able to create or recreate a good convincing AI!?
     
  13. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Just drove with Maseratis and the AI was pretty convicing to me ( could be also that I was pretty slow :D, not use to drive so that I can not step on it right away). They made many mistakes and one even blocked me when I tried to overtake. AI level was 110%/75%. AI drivers were slow in few corners but I believe that this is AIW problem ( track was Kyalami).

    I read earlier that when an AI car loses a wheel it just floats and does not hit the ground. At least with Maseratis I saw that loosing a wheel leads to hitting the ground.

    Can somebody tell, does it affect the AI if I am using the "all cars and tracks" mod instead of specific series mod?
     
  14. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Yes Kyalami has someway really good AI. The only track where they actually fights and try to overtake me, and drive side by side. I always have AI to 100% aggressive.
     
  15. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Only aids I use for racing are pedals, wheel, shifter and TrackIR ;)
     
  16. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    Nope... never have, never will. :)
     
  17. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    You might have been when you typed that but you won`t be tonight ;)
     
  18. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    -1

    Loads and loads of people race the AI only but to hell with them right?
     
  19. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I drive with some aids. You going to give me hard time for that? :D I want something between sim and arcade experience, mostly because I have found driving with no aids is too hard and not fun ( With my skills, and I believe it is partially because I don't have anything better than F430 wheel).

    Some may say that I am not driving as it is supposed to, but I do not care. I am having great time with this game.

    I have to settle with offline races because I haven't found any server to suite my skill level. That is why I hold thumps up for AI improvements. I still get the other great sim benefits (like great ffb) even by driving with some aids on.
     
  20. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Shh Tig, don't tell them it's only a game.
     
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