rF2 biggest challenger?

I heard that...

 

I think the rF2 biggest challenger is rF2 itself.

 

2012 Porsche GT3 R



Umm, Just playing Devils Advocate here for a moment , as far as I'm aware the Drivers of the 2012 Porsche 997 GT3 R use -
"Paddle Shifters" with "Autoblip", "Racing ABS" and "Traction Control".

So if a modder were to make a "Porsche GT3 R" Mod (lets hope there's a Mod team out there working on such a beast for rF2), would it be realistic not to use those aids?

I do know what you mean though, using Traction control on rF2's BT20 would seem strange and almost a crime, however some of us who enjoy using/racing Sims in a league situation, may need a little help to be competitive/consistent when racing, due to lots of factors, eg age, physical impairment or just not getting the feel of whatever Sim/Mod your playing at the time.
Whats the harm in letting people use Aids? As much as we'd like not to acknowledge it, we are just playing a game, sitting in a chair in front of a monitor (or 3 if your lucky ) , it's a Simulation, it's not real.

To answer your question "Are any of you using aids?", Yes I use them, not on all Mods, (haven't felt the need to use them while driving rF2) but I do use them on occasion (talking rF1 here), if i think the Mod warrants it, and lets face it there are a lot of great looking Mods out there where the physics aren't quite as polished as they could be. I've read numerous accounts where REAL Race drivers that after driving a Sim say the Sim is harder to drive than the real thing, grip level is the main thing they talk about, its just not modeled correctly in a lot of what we PLAY.

IMHO I believe that there is a place for Driver Aids in Sims, and in Real Racing too. If it helps make the racing better and more accessible I don't have a problem with it, simple as that.

 

+1

 

Exactly my thoughts also, but i never use those "arcade aids settings" in the menus of rF2 since i have not a clue if the IRL serie/car use them and of course i cant anyway since they aren't allowed on most of the online servers anyway. Instead I would like the cars to be simulated as close to reality as possible in this aspect too, which includes all the latest tech advancement for going faster/safer as TC, ABS, or whatever are used IRL (depending on what serie is simulated). If IRL its possible to turn on/off these features for that specific car, the way to turn them on or off (or dismount) should be on the setup pages and therefor also properly simulated for every car (not generic arcade dumbing down the physics the same for all cars).

The strange thing is that most of the servers allow autoclutch for some reason though!? How hard is it to map a button on the wheel/shifter for clutch, worked fine for me anyway before i got a clutchpedal...

 

As a rule, all GT3 cars have TC/ABS, unless it breaks on them...

 

This is interesting because F1 Challenge had same AI as rF2, but just bit more limited.

Also it is not big thing to make AI work well if one is happy with AI having physics of ghost car, just place model constantly to good location instead of making it drive there, like some old games had.

Another interesting bit for AI would be if they would accelerate when they get into slide, as that is what one has to do to avoid slap of tail.

 

If people seriously have that fond interest in the F1C or N2003 AI, I can only suggest they reinstall those pieces of software and have another look. Really.

 

rF2 already have "ghost car" function working and the best performance data can be saved/recorded.

Just a thought: ISI can use this saved data as the base of AI's performance, next time you race them on the same track! Can't they?

Based on this interview below, it seems SimBin managed to create "adaptive AI" which based on driver's performance. Well, I think they just managed to implement the idea above.

 

Anyone tried this?

Autocalibrate AI Mode="0" // When in a test day with 1 AI, AI will attempt to perfect his driving line, and save his knowledge for future use

 

Yes, do a test day with 1 AI driver, and he will say something like:

"Testing beginning, stay out my way, human..."

And then the AI does lap after lap until he perfects his racing line.

 

Seems to me that many older sims are looked back on with a certain romanticism. The same applies to earlier comments around GP4. Though i would say GP4 and NR2003 (and GPL) had more usable AI than GTR/GTR2 at times. But by no means were they really amazing.

What often gets to me about discussion on AI in sims is that I've been online with many, many racers who are less aware and capable than AI in a given sim. Some people get online when they can barely control the car, and if you're having trouble controlling the car then there will be no time to look in mirrors and race effectively.

Sometimes AI do daft things, historically. All parking in a line behind a spun car, braking heavily well before a pitlane entry, etc. But if you race them with these foibles in mind, you won't be surprised. Arguably, everyone, both offline and online, should exercise a bit of caution anyway, can't hurt, and can certain reduce the amount of crashes!

On ISI built tracks, I have found the rF2 AI to be really enjoyable to race with. But i never expect miracles from them.

 

There is no such thing as competition in the sim racing industry.

Most sims and real life all use different physics engines, real life being the most perfect God given physics engine.

So you drive the, lets say 3-4 best sims available. You adapt to each sims physics, making sure to be able to shine up to whatever level of competitivness you are content with, ON ALL OF THEM. Then when/if you make the switch to the best physics engine available called real life, you are best prepared, as you have been training on the best 3 or 4 sims, all with their own little physics areas where they out-shine one another.

At the top of this list for me are RFactor 2, Assetto Corsa and anything Reiza related (as long as they continue in the direction they are in now, which is pure sim, and hopefully in future migrare to RF2 engine to keep up).

To add to that trio, MAYBE, depending on how much they improve, IRacing. Live for Speed, when/if S3 finally comes out, is a possible addition, or even replacement for IRacing (depending on how they both progress), but only if they do a MASSIVE change to their physics, if they do this, then I am assuming if/when S3 comes out, that it will be a major player in the sim market, maybe not in terms of sales (or maybe so, who knows), but in terms of pure physics/driving.

Oh.... and KartSim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-ZqEUe_8YA

 

Industry does compete, and when it comes to the epeen measurements of which is the best sim, ofcourse there is competition.
The sim with most realistic physics, graphics and content wins... its that simple.
Then we have the "fun not so hc sims" driving games, which usually take the top dollar with the massive sales, and theyre competing even more fiercely, we are even talking about console sale numbers here. I know alot of people who have bought either ps or xbox depending on which franchise they like the best, GT or Forza.

 

I didn't mean compete with each other in terms of business and sales, I meant compete with me! For which one/ones to choose to drive.

 

It will be interesting how things pan out over the next year or two. Competition is always good for the consumer because it forces companies to push to the best of their ability for the greater market share.

Now with Assetto Corsa available (apparently) in Q1 of 2013 they have just announced they have a Ferrari license, to go along with Lotus, BMW and Pagani. Four very big names in the car world, a Mugello license and DX11. Some nice ingredients there although a lack of some new technology like RealRoad and weather/environment system is the next step forward in my opinion (provided it works properly).

Let's wait and see before making any judgements as to which is better. I personally think they each bring something different to the table so can be equally as good.

 

I am starting to wonder the same thing after reading the entire thread.
I'm only seeing real problems with the AI on user made tracks. 20 cars start and only 2 AI finish. All of a sudden just cutting off track and into a wall. Things of that nature with mod tracks. And even that doesn't happen with ALL user made tracks, but a good number of them seem to have these problems. In a race at Mountian Forest I ran out of fuel and was being lapped while coasting to the pits.
I tried to get the car coming up behind me to hit me (to give me push). I couldn't, both the leader and the second place car (a little ways apart from each other) were able to miss me and get around me cleanly. And I really was trying to get in their way hoping I would get hit enough to speed me up some. But, those were the only two cars that finished the race, out of 19 AI.

When I am playing a ISI track/car combo, no problems at all really. 20 cars start, 18 finish, me in last place at 97% AI strength in a 24 lap race. Never get rammed, unless I make a mistake right in front of one. They give me room beside them and I feel comfortable around them. This is pretty much the norm with all the ISI tracks I have raced the AI on. There are some little weird things happen sometimes, but I see that on TV when watching real racing, so I can't complain too much about it. For the most part, they are doing very well.

I'm not defending ISI for the sake of it. I am just sharing what is happening in my game and the fact that I only have any real issues with the AI when I am playing on a 3rd party track. I have most of the tracks out right now, but haven't tried all of them yet. I will be sure to make notes of things that seem wrong, be it ISI or 3rd party.

 

I like to race against AIs more than humans. Only dislike in rf2 ai behaviour like gran turismo 5, after an accident, seems they don't use reverse to get space to turn around me. They just try to rum over me if there is no space to turn around.

 

I'm not saying I think people just have an issue with modder-made content, I think people will have a better experience with the F2 and the Skip Barbers, because they use a lot more varied parameters (I did them) than the others ISI have released. I'd still be interested to hear if there is a better experience with those cars, because I think there is...

 

I agree with all that, I think you miss my point though.
It is more about the the "experience".
Plus it would get rid of some menus, keys and the need to set or disable anything.

Pro version would include any aids on any real cars but would be disabled for anything else.

I do not deny anyone driving BT20 with all aids if they wish.
Equally if there was a Pro version it would not affect any aids users ( much how I get told payware won't affect me)
All it means you have a choice.

On your point of realism I think it is "what you make of it' and knowing that I have no aids or help.
It is like someone pointing a empty gun then loading a bullet in it, your senses are heighten now but
nothing is going to change in reality, unless of course he pulls the trigger.

When you drift out to a wall with damage turned down you don't think about it other then your sector time. If you have no damage your senses are heighten straight away.
Knowing there was never any help even if I wanted it would be another sense again.

Asking if you used aids was not meant to sound condescending, it is just a fact that many never use them.

As what real drivers say honestly I have never cared, it is what I feel, that is all that has ever mattered, of course I value simmers opinions highly.

Again I agree there is a place for aids of course always has been, though I never said it is just about aids, there are many things.

I would like a sim had forced cockpit, you would onlly have the ability to watch multi-cam replays out of session.
All your sessions would be real-time career, if you sat in pits for most of session it would have effects.
Every lap would be pit out , full flags ,

No press ESC , no pass go to collect $200.

Is there any less a place for at least one sim that invokes this level of commitment. ?


That is not to say I may not buy the "normal" version of the same sim for some aids myself
or to lap on server with guys that do. I would have Choice.