Let's talk about what FFB editing is possible in rF2

Sorry - did I offend or is my sarcasm detector faulty? Was being serious, seeing as I'm sat here with an MS Sidewinder FFB. Improved mid corner feel loads... altho had to dial up the rumble strips just out of personal preference.

 

View attachment 12830

Here be my baby (complete with equally decrepit Sidewinder gamepad bolted to the side for pit requests / bias adjustment) - twas the first FFB wheel commercially released if memory serves - I bought it soon as it reached UK market. Been working perfectly now for 18 years, and never managed to justify the £150 bill for a used G25 / £180 bill for a G27. When it finally dies, then I'll be able to justify, but as long as it keeps working, I'll keep using it. S'a bit worn and rattly on the FFB front, and you can't assign anything to the top buttons on each side as pushing the selector paddle flexes the PCB internally and also pushes those... but otherwise it's good (!) - just so long as you remember the necessity for skip updates at 2.

Your settings are very... fizzy is about only word I can think to describe... compared to my previous settings which could only be described as lumpy by comparison!

 

Using your settings I drove just about all the ISI cars and thought WOW!, a lot better than than anything I have tried before! So I gave it what is the real test for me. How does it feel on the Targa. This not really a good track to test ffb on, but
for the whole 40 minute drive there was the feeling of complete control. That has never happened to me before on ANY track! So thank you for your work!!

 

Paul, i will try your settings when i return to the uk. In the meantime, you do know that using 100% overall force effects creates a massively ffb clipped region of all forces between 60-100%?



It essentially renders the pedal plugin useless in trying to avoid ffb clipping. There was a time i used 100% (because it made the initial ffb deadzone smaller and increased the low end forces which is now achievable with the stm) but i used very low car specific ffb multipliers to ensure the ffb bar in the pedal overlay plugin did not go over 60% (as this is the ffb clipping point when using 100% overall effects strength).

 

@Paul, many thanks for sharing this. As a G27 user i just tried your settings and they give me so much more feedback and imho realistic feedback i never experienced before.
Tho i think i have to finetune settings here and there because of my wheel being a lot less powerfull, using your settings shaved of a good bit of my laptimes and cars are much more predictable for me.

Cheers Edwin

 

So would this explain why Paul has had to go as low as 0.27 with steering torque sensitivity to get more linear ffb?

Paul how are you measuring the linearity of your ffb? Is it purely by feel or are you measuring it somehow? Sorry if this is already stated somewhere i've probably missed it. I'll give your settings a try when I get a chance and see how it feels.

 

re.t500

regardless of fancy graphs ( who makes those? ), the t500 produces better fine detail at 60 to 63 overall forces in the t500 profiler, at 75 & above the firmware translates small forces in a aggressive way which dosn't feel good

try 60% & adjust the rf2 ffb setting accordantly you'll notice it's a lot better

 

Thanks speed1 and adrianstealth. I am going to try your settings after dinner in a couple hours.

I had some fun races in the classic F3s at 60's Monaco yesterday. I was switching between msportdan and Paul's FFB settings, also a version of each with 4% STM, and then also tried them but set control panel damper to 50% instead of 100%. I am still getting way too much of my steering "focusing" on telling me about the rearslide of the car, rather than it "focused" on front slip from turning and from braking/lock up.

I would crank the wheel more and less while mid corner, and as the tyre was transitioning from, for eg., a couple % slip, to a large amount of slip, back down to almost no slip, etc. etc. as I would do that, the feelings of the FFB would hardly change. I could hear different amounts and different types of tyre squeal, but the wheel feel was just a constant resisting load, nothing telling me about tiny difference in constantly changing amounts of front tyre slip percentages. Nothing in the wheel's FFB would be dynamically changing depending on all these different amounts of slip constantly changing. Even worse than the Nissan 370Z @ Mores (I could feel a slight improvement over stock with the 370Z @ Mores when I switched to Paul's settings).

Most of the FFB seems to be "focusing" too much on rear-end slip (makes catching the rear-end amazingly good though, especially Paul's settings, but in order for pure lap-time and lap-time consistency, I need front feel, the rear I can take car of myself from visual even if it does feel a little difficult or odd in terms of the actual FFB itself).

Same with braking. In each and every race yesterday, my tyres would eventually be flatspotted to death because I would lock up so often. The lock ups are very small though, i'm not locking up like some lunatic lol, however because I am pressing the car relatively hard it's just constant tiny lock ups for split seconds at a time, because I can't feel the edge of front tyre lock, I can only see the tyre stop spinning, well by then it's too late, the tyre has already locked.

Going to try speed1 and adrianstealth's tonight. Should I put damper back to 0% for those? And overall back to 70% ?


EDIT: Paul, you've contributed a TON to this thread and many people have probably tried, and benefitted greatly, from your settings (think of how many people see these threads, regardless of replying or even having an account). Thank you so much for the help and all the time you spent writing your posts. Please don't be discouraged.

I think you just explained what I am looking for in the FFB better in 1 sentence than I have in a multitude of paragraphs, lol.

 

Just tried F3 classic at limepark with speed1 and adrianstealths FFB settings, and also a version with 4% STM. Adrianstealths did seem to have a bit more FFB effects changing depending on slip but it was still very faint. It's pretty much the same old no matter whos FFB I use, (I've tried 4 peoples now, plus the default). There just seems to be way too much of this resistance/wanting to return to centre feel, and too much emphasis on the FFB wanting to react (albeit very nicely and controllably) with the rear-end.

All FFB profiles are still COMPLETELY DEAD when it comes to trying to feel how close I am to locking up my brakes. There is no feeling of threshold braking. The FFB might as well be turned off when it comes to feeling the front-end. I cannot feel how much more steering I can add as I am super slowly releasing the brakes, there is just no grip information coming through the wheel. It's just this constant resisting force mimicking a real steering column which, frankly, at first feels very nice controllable and natural, but tells me almost nothing of the car physics besides the whole "steering wants to auto-correct when the rear slides" effect which rF2 does beautifully well, but feeling that only helps you control oversteer, it doesn't help you gain tenths and half-seconds, it only helps you not spin.

Do you guys think there is a way to develop a plugin which would work sort of like the rF1 FFB? Adjusting how different physics/behavior of the car are felt through the FFB, rather than just mimicking a pure steering column?? Less face it, probably not even 25% of what a real-life race driver "listens to" when pressing the car hard comes from the steering wheel/column. Feeling all the car around you ("seat of the pants" feeling, vibrations and other feelings from the corners of the car as tyres slip and slide, vibrations from the chassis as the wheels spin up, g-force changes depending on you deceleration rate, shudders and skips of the chassis when pressing too hard, etc. etc.) is MUCH more informative, and MUCH more important to feel, than the forces that are felt just directly from the steering wheel/column itself.

I've had enough experience in some real-world racecars at decent car-limit zones (around 2.5 seconds off the lap-record on a sub 1 minute lap, which would equate to around 3.75 seconds off the lap record on a 1:30 s lap track), and TRUST ME, you cannot drive to those limits and consistently if all the feelings and forces you would feel magically were removed from you except your steering wheel/column feel. But on the other hand, you COULD get extremely close, and maybe do just as good, if all of sudden your steering wheel's forces magically were removed but you were still left with every other force to feel (chassis, g-force, "seat of the pants", pedals, etc.).

I drove with hardly any steering feel once, the front suspension geometry alignment was completely setup incorrectly by a student mechanic. The fact that there was hardly any resistance in the wheel was terrible, however in terms of feeling the car, the grip, the brakes, the millions of slips and slides happening every second, well the screwed-up steering hardly made any difference in that regard because most, BY FAR, of what you feel in order to push a car hard in real-life DOES NOT come from the steering wheel/column but from the chassis, g-force, "seat of the pants", pedals, etc. feelings.

I'm not exaggerating, I think I have locked the brakes more in the last 2 days in rF2, than maybe 1 month of driving rF1 (custom rF1 FFB settings to my liking in order to feel much more around me than you would get just from a steering column). Not exaggerating. Also my consistency is now terrible. The feel of how much grip is left in the tyre, or how much over the slip you have gone, and how that constantly is changing many times a second as you add more steering, take away steering, add more brake, release brakes, is terrible for me. Just no info, and when I do feel something it's very vague and un-defined.

 

Again, the karts seem a little different. The rF2 karts are closer to the "effects" of rF1 (custom tuned rF1 settings) than any other rF2 car. The rF2 karts give me more of the following type of effects: on/off effects, vibrations at different frequencies depending on how much slip is occurring, steering resistance of different amounts depending on how how much front slip is occurring, jolts and the wheel tensing up and then un-tensing as your tyres massively loss grip or all of a sudden regain grip, etc.

I just made 15 new controller.ini files, lol. Messing around with all sorts of different numbers/settings like I did in the rF1 days. Will report back if I find anything worth mentioning.

 

I`m very new to rf2 and need help with my FFB settings. I`m running a Logitech G27 and the steering feels for me very weak. Courios on this, with some cars it`s fine (e.g. Honda BTCC) and some cars it`s like driving without wheels (e.g. open wheeler). How could i make the steering within the rf2 settings a bit stronger? Other FFB feedback is fine (Cerbs, Dumps etc.). Is there somewhere a documentation about the ingame settings? I miss informations about the settings, no mouseover description, nothing...

My G27 settings:

View attachment 12835

rf2 controller settings:

 

er...me. lol

I use 70%, increases low end strength of forces, reduces initial ffb deadzone a little and response curve is still very linear with only a slight tapering off at the top end which i found through personal testing to be an acceptable level of minor clipping.

 

I also tried Pauls and msportdan.

Pauls was very nice although I had to reverse the FFB for my wheel (Elite).
FFB was progressive throughout the corner getting stronger the faster/harder I cornered.
Only thing for me is it's lacking FFB at standing and low speed,seems like it's got power steering kinda thing,probably difference in wheel though.

msportdan's just seemed to be on steroids,very strong FFB from the get go.

I will be testing everybody's ini some more tonight but also like Spinelli (I think) I don't get a loose feeling when loss of grip.
It does go loose in places like it should but when I go over a crest and get airborne the wheel should go light,very light as in no FFB.
I'm still unsure if it's a wheel thing or rF2 FFB thing?

I did hook up my G27 for a test but it also didn't go 'light' over the crest.
I did not test very much as the noise just sounded horrible compared to my Elite so it's going back in it's box and being sold.

Can you Guys test Meganes at Jops Siffert and see if your wheel goes FFBLess over the crest?

 

Ah, I missed that. Yes, that can make up for it to some degree but not entirely because looking at the 100% response curve, it's not just a positive nonlinear curve. It has a very linear 0-60% component with small ffb deadzone (which is ideal and you want to leave it be) but in then starts plateauing sharply and suddenly clips heavily of all forces above 60%.

Adding that low steering torque sensitivity will recover the high end clipping a good amount but will severely weaken the low end forces.

Based on what I'm hearing from people, this seems to be the outcome.

Shame we don't know the equation used to determine the nonlinearity of the steering torque sensitivity. If we did, we can see what the combination of steering torque sensitivity with overall ffb effects strength will look like outside of subjective experience/interpretation.

 

I hope you know I try to be funny. I know what you're looking for but that version I think you will not find at the moment in rf2.


Paul has been previously very well explained as the driver the car has to control and I think that is pretty well implemented in rf2 but different and I think almost it is a combination from a lack of hardware and the associated control including software, where the software comes last and can not do everything, for example with safety to say not to eliminate the internal friction of the steering wheel (just a little thing of the whole).

Most important is you have to feel connected, as the goal is achieved may be differ, while the information are enough for some it isn't unfortunately for other people.

Maybe it can still be optimized in some detail but I think that lasts. Until then I have my and other settings in folder.

 

I see this setting here more than one time. My personaly expirience is that the default setting 1.0 = linear setting works with my wheel much better.

Steering torque sensitivity="2.00000" // Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high

Specialy if you want feel weight tranfers and detailed forces. I've used the 2.0 high setting a time ago and I remember the ffb force was very strong but to less detailed for me.

Second thing I use to adapt the ffb to the car is the smoothing value in the UI.
If I raise the smoothing I raise the ffb multip. too.
As the name says the force curves are smoothed with the result of less peaks.
You can proof this with the pedal overlay plugin.
For example with the new ISI F3.5 I use smooth = 5 and ffb mulit = 1.32
This procedur is a good compromise for me and I'm able to find relative quick a good setting for the car and I need only the ingame settings.

I know there is much optimizing potential in the settings but the backside is it will never fit for every car. I'm too lazzy to customize the settings for every car and put then this ini file to the right time in the folder ^-^

you can see my hardware specs in the profile

 

I had it for some time on standard, only this thread has reminded me there was something like the damping/steering resistance and linearity in the plr I once had tested and edited a long time ago and perceived the result as the best solution for me (T500RS), certainly not in detail because I can not measure anything, but after feeling it fits pretty well to the hardware.

The linearity of 2.0 seems to increase some low areas and among other things it adds road noise and an additional resistance during no-load range or low speeds to it, whereas the value 1 again a sensible range seems to neglected.

In my opinion that comes from the steering wheel, it dampens subtleties of forces and overlaid this due to the technology with belts and such.

I think to get around this, this value (linearity) should not be reduced but increased also the additional steering resistance seems to overlap things why I turn it off and the result-is better for me. Certainly it is not perfect and unfortunately not what Spinelli is looking for but I like it.

I am currently testing with overall strength on 50% with my settings and it seems to fit better.

 

For me the steering strength is to weak. How could i increase ingame the steering strength?

 

I just can't remember if this thread is the fifth of sixth thread talking about FFB. In all of them I always ask ISI for some type of clarification. They have programmed it and it is supposed to be right and they are supposed to know it better than anybody else around here.

However, I have already lost all the faith that ISI tries to clarify this, so I feel the need to accuse ISI of a huge lack of respect to all the people posting throughout these threads which for sure are trying to help the rest of the community.

ISI's attitude is simply not understandable unless that simply they do not know what in the hell thay have in their hands which is what I am starting to think.

Sorry for not providing any interesting info about the covered topic itself.

enviado mediante tapatalk

 

It is dont understandable to mee, too. I never got in my life (53 years so far...) a poor support like it happen with ISI. The customer must went trough hundred`s of threads, to get basic information about the product he bought. Ok, ISI is a small company, but this is not an excuse for lack of support. It is really sad to see, what they are doing with a really (basicly) good product. The success of rF1 and the on this depending standing of ISI, is complete thrown away because of all the problems with rF2. Other companys/studios would be happy, if they would get the chance, to sell & support a product like rF2 with the famous background of rF1.

BTT:

any ideas to increase the steering strenght ingame?