Lets talk about the MERC GT3 FFB?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    @Marcel Offermans

    Hello I love the gt3 pack visually up there with PCars2 imo and beyond with handling immersion and ffb. However one bug bear which me and many are having.... and that's - whats up with the FFB in the MERC gt3 AMG?

    Its almost to me, when you go around say Silverstone, the ffb feels reversed only when cornering at speed... (trust me my ffb isn't set that way)

    But you lean in to the corner - say abbey or copse - and the ffb quickly tightens up for say half a sec, then the ffb then goes all light?! It feels like you have hit this patch of ice and tyres are sliding. I take the McLaren for instance and the same cornering speed the ffb nicely tightens up but doesn't clip - I feel in control. The AMG feels like theres always grip loss at all speeds yet in replay the car isn't sliding and the tyre graph isn't lighting up the tyres at all.

    Please could this car be looked at, and if you agree or have findings guys please share.?
     
  2. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I made an extended report about this.
    Apparently the problem is a combination of a low Steering Torque to FFB ratio combined with a noisy FFB. As if a different internal damping coefficient was being used. As you say McLaren is exactly the opposite. Tests were done in a controlled environment.
     
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  3. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Isn't that just because of low caster angle?
     
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  4. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    I'm not expert at this, but how i have understood it is that in low caster angle cars the contact patch can go to the other side (front side) of the steering axis and that way reverting the direction of force you get to your steering wheel.

    [​IMG]

    Imagine the side force coming to the contact patch during cornering and then the contact patch moving to the other side of the steering axis as you add steering angle. The direction of the torque caused by that side force changes.

    In reality the side force isn't the only force acting on the tyre of course.
     
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  5. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    I agree that's how they made the f2 feel better for me. But they unlocked the caster option - they can't do that with gt3 surely?
     
  6. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Have you tried using higher ffb multi for the merc? I did that and spent some time driving it to get used to the steering feel and quite like the car now.
     
  7. dadaboomda

    dadaboomda Registered

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    This is the FFB GT3 pack that I prefer ... nothing shocked me in any case.
     
  8. stonec

    stonec Member

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    Unlocking the caster means that they'll give an advantage to AMG, because high caster in rF2 typically improves lap times. I'm not a fan of creating fictional setup options just to improve FFB. But I'd be glad to hear Studio 397 comment on it, since this topic of "wrong FFB" comes up with every new car.
     
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  9. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    i agree stonec. :)
     
  10. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I know it’s old thread but Merc FFB still feels broken. At least with other games including AC, RR, PC the weel doesn’t go light at higher steering lock.
     
  11. blagger

    blagger Registered

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    I bought the old GT3 pack yesterday and I have to agree, the FFB for the Mercedes feels wrong. Please S397 take a look at it.
     
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  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Mercedes FFB doesn't feel wrong to me. I suspect that maybe there is some kind of bug if FFB reverts for someone ? I remember I had reverting FFB thing with Miata mod, but I redownloaded it from good source, and then it was good...

    Mercedes FFB is totally fine to me. It definitely goes light, but it doesn't revert and doesn't feel wrong.

    The car obviously has little amount of mechanical trail, so pneumatic trail is relatively big. Pneumatic trail decreases as more of the tire footprint is sliding, as a result self aligning torque decreases. It is actually good to feel slip angle like that, it is only that there is less self aligning for big slip angle... it is basic stuff.

    Also self aligning torque peak should be earlier than lateral force peak, it feels like they are very close if not the same, IDK
     
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  13. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    As I understand, FFB is a direct result of game's physics engine , forces acting on a steering column. So there's no custom FFB tuning for a car. Here is other thread which explains it better:
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....ith-heavy-understeer.60772/page-4#post-970849

    Assuming it's true, still if FFB behavior of the Mercedes is so different than in other sims, then perhaps something is wrong with it's physics?
     
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  14. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    But it so easily goes light during understeer and it doesn't exist in any other sim then you would think something is wrong in rF2.
    On the other hand the Mercedes AMG GT3 pro driver Jan Seyffarth quickly tested it in rF2 and didn't say FFB was wrong, but I believe it was before car's physics update "broke" FFB.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Why do you put wrong video ?

    I just checked his video about rF2, and he says multiple times that FFB was too strong, so it was probably more likely fixed to less mechanical trail (if it was changed). Anyway if you'd check out what pneumatic trail and mechanical trail is, you'd see that it is probably realistic.
     
  16. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    The "anti-FFB Merco simracers" are so noisy that S397 will feel obliged to do something, while the physics and therefore the FFB have no major flaws.
     
  17. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Registered

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    I wonder if there isn't a bug affecting a few of us. Those of you who think the Merc FFB is realistic must either have never driven the car or the car isn't behaving the way it is for the rest of us.

    I can easily plow the front end with the wheel at a 60-90 angle and light the front tires on fire all day long through every turn. I've never driven such a poorly modeled car. Maybe it's a bug...maybe its the modeling, I don't know but there's no way that it is correct and it isn't just a few of us. None of the major Youtubers will drive the car (michi hoyer, simracing 604, Jimmy...etc) despite the fact that they're all happy to drive the car in every other sim.

    Please S397...take a deeper look at this. I can put up with the graphics and lack of detail in some of the releases, but this car is atrocious.
     
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  18. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    It is simply just broken. Like totally broken.
     
  19. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    The old me would of argued further now i simply dont care much. To me the car felt odd ffb wise, maybe its lifelike Cant imagine so but there you go..

    The way rf2 is so hit n miss atm evn with paid dlc im getting a little disheartened by my fav sim.
     
  20. gabrielof

    gabrielof Registered

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    I’m curious to know which steering wheel you guys use, AMG feels completely fine in my Fanatec CSL Elite.
     
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