Lets talk about the MERC GT3 FFB?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    It would help if those complaining that the FFB is "broken" listed what wheels they were using, it would also be good to test with Default Wheel Driver and Default Controller.JSON settings as not only would that make it easier to replicate but that may actually "cure" the issue they're having. Perhaps it's better to start a new Bug Thread in the appropriate Forum, post settings files as well as Wheel Driver Numbers/Setting etc, the more information the better for S397 to look into it if there is an issue. :)

    Personally it feels fine on my T300, it does come through as more "notchy" in turns and the FFB Graph in MoTeC shows this compared to the Bentley for example, but it's far from "broken" for me, it's perfectly drive able and I'm easily able to catch slides and feel understeer, it's certainly not massively different from other Cars from the same Pack or the GTChallengers Pack.
     
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  2. stonec

    stonec Member

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    A quick search already gave at least two videos with Michi Hoyer driving this car. There is even a long setup guide video (link).
     
  3. stonec

    stonec Member

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    The problem with these sort of threads is that it's mostly just opinion vs opinion. Like in the last few posts, @Miro claims FFB is totally broken and @gabrielof says it's fine. Which one is it? @SPASKIS provided some objective data and this is the approach to go IMO if there is something to be pointed out that needs fixing.

    I remember when the F2 car was released and everyone kept saying the FFB was broken. Yet, ISI later revealed it was actually tested by a real F2 driver, who pointed out that the old caster they used was wrong, after which ISI reduced the caster to a realitic one, which then caused all the complaints.
     
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  4. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Well, this is the only car that behaves this way in the whole game, not to mention the only among 10 cars in a class with a formula that is homologation based.... you can only say this is right if the manufacturer says it's right.
    S397 does not seem to have a final approval check list and many bugs go to release unoticed by them (and are not fixed a year after release). Even if someone like this ffb cant this person suspect this is wrong just a little bit? Seriously?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  5. d0nd33

    d0nd33 Registered

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    I've run some tests: the AMG does indeed have a weaker FFB, but that is because the torque at the steering shaft is also lower. The reason for this has been explained already.
    You can confirm this from the telemetry:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Red/color: McLaren 720S
    White: AMG
    I made this test changing only a few setup parameters. You can see that the AMG's FFB force never drops to 0 during corners. In game FFB multiplier: 0.60 for both cars.

    Maybe there is a problem with how you've set up your wheel: for example, if you use 100% strength and 1.00 multiplier with a T500, the feel of lightness of the AMG will be a lot more pronounced because of non linear FFB wheel response. I recommend against these settings.
    Here you can find my FFB settings, I think they're good for a T500. A minor thing I've changed: I always use 0.60 multiplier because it fits every car and allows for a bit of difference between them, such as they don't all have the same force.

    If the AMG's physics are working as intended, in my opinion there is no reason to make any change.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  6. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Exactly.
    "then the ffb then goes all light?! It feels like you have hit this patch of ice and tyres are sliding"
    I do not understand why people are complaining about this, that's the whole point of FFB, to give feedback.
    I can't think of another car in rf2 that givers better feedback to a driver that the car is sliding than the Merc.
    In most any other car you have to look at the tire graph or rely on visual/audio cues to know you are sliding.
    As for the F2 FFB that I saw mentioned, the one they made to cater for people's complaints is utter garbage, the old one was perfect.
    I would never drive the F2 and race it with the "patched" caster, it is a total mess.
    You see this is just an opinion but so is everyone else's around here.
    If they are gonna mess up the AMG FFB because people just won't stop complaining about it, well, so long as they leave the current option in there then I don't care.
     
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  7. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Gonna test that setup myself right now. :) And feel the FFB if its weird for me (T300).
     
  8. kimbo

    kimbo Registered

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    The Mercedes is my favorite GT3 (pack 1 And 2) car, best ffb, best feeling, g27 here
     
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  9. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Sorry somehow copied wrong link. Now I linked correct one.
    I re-watched the video and yes he’s talking about too strong FFB but it could be easily fixed by lowering FFB multiper. He didn’t mention wheel going light when car understeer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  10. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Just tested the Merc and Radical GT3's on T300RS. The only thing, to me personally, is that the Merc has a bit more rasp/buzz/harsh in the FFB but i fix it with a tiny bit of smooth. Other than that its not too bad. Im sure DD wheel would be epic and im aiming for one, but i found out i had to lower my settings on the T300. I have been cranking everything as much as i can (before clipping) because i want forces to shake my arms (like real race cars) but the fact that i have a T300 is to reel it back a bit and be realistic about it. I lowered the control panel setting and i lowered mult plus set smooth to "0" and tweak min force to get the initial forces (before it start oscillating) and i have to say i have new life in my wheel. Its weaker but its so detailed and alive. Just did a few AI races with the Merc and Radical and i f*****g loved it. :)
     
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  11. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    It's a very simple story. Different steering wheels reflect the FFB in different ways. While you hardly feel any understeer in the steering wheel with a G27 on the Callaway Corvette or the Radical, it is very noticeable with the CSW V2. If the understeer with the G27 on the AMG GT3 is well noticeable, it is much too extreme with the CSW V2, so extreme that after a certain resistance there is suddenly no more restoring torque and you are inclined to suddenly tear the steering wheel because it becomes much too smooth. During the phase where there is no resistance, you don't get any information about the driving condition, it feels like the FFB is deactivated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Well thats because it IS deactivated as the tire is completely sliding and the only logical choice you have is to gently reduce steer angle or saw back and forth +-5degs if the restoring force vs latteral force relates as it should be. There probably still is resistance from gyroscopic force and kinematic friction and a bit of mechanical trail, but thats probably too low and is overcome by powersteering, and that car probably uses good amount of powersteering asistance.

    Honestly as I read I imagine that you turn so hard with 10+ Nm resistance and than it drops to very low resistance so fast that you can't react and just steer uncontrollably should look funny :D Something like if you lift an object which you think is heavy, but it turn out to be very light, and you use way too much force on it :D

    After a turn or two it shouldn't be so unexpected anymore. I also don't believe that it happens without any progression, even if you say it is so with heavy FFB torque, if you properly steer it shouldn't be so, because you aren't supposed to do sudden steering inputs anyway, you freak out tires and suspension that way.
     
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  13. Hany

    Hany Member

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    The ffb of the merc is broken, the guys that say this car is fine are probably way off pace and dont know how to push it. On the limit this car is a joke ffb wise. T2 and t3 at silverstone the ffb goes completely light when understeer kicks in.

    This is the only car with this kind of behaviour in rf2 and there is something wrong. Please fix this S397 because this car deserves to be driven
     
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  14. DreamsKnight

    DreamsKnight Registered

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    done @fuji some tests with all gt3 cars some days ago with my team mate. i have a t300 and he has a g27. the behaviour is exactly the one descripted the post above and totally different from the others gt3 cars. i hate it, he loves it.
     
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  15. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Dont even need to drive on the limit tho, when going slow it happens too, the ffb resistance kind of turn off after 15º wheel rotation, then curbs and bumps work full force, it's just weird and on my poor dfgt pretty bad, the wheel just want to explode xD
     
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  16. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    There are so many things wrong with this post.
    Starting with speed having anything to do with FFB.
    Since I started out with a 20 euro wheel with no FFB I know that's a misconception you and many others possibly have.
    Believe it or not you can turn FFB to zero and after getting used to it ht the exact same lap times.
    You won't be enjoying yourself as much but you will at least get a better idea of what FFB is there for: Immersion
     
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  17. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Geez wish there was a disagree button .
     
  18. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    I disagree
     
  19. kimbo

    kimbo Registered

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    Your post is a joke
     
  20. Hany

    Hany Member

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    What are u talking about? I can drive the merc under the limit with very limited lock and the ffb will feel alright. Its when u start pushing with more lock in the slow corners where the problem appears.

    The ffb will just go numb after a certain degree which is unrealistic. Nowhere in my post did I state that ffb is needed to go faster although the ffb in rf2 is very helpful and more than just for immersion imo.

    Why are we even discussion this when it has been proven that this car is broken, @Miro can tell u all about it and if u dont know who that is, he is the best physics guy in rf2 community. He made the physics for the urd ford gte and kartsim
     

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