FFB in GT3 cars has gone ultra light with heavy understeer

Will Mazeo said:
Well here it has nothing to do with limit, the wheel is heavy when I turn like 10º and then after that boom! Super light! But once you put a wheel on a bump or curb the FFB work with the proper strenght, so it's very annoying to use. No other car makes that.
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Well yes, if you are dancing with the limit and turn the wheel more you are not going to get more grip, you are going to get understeer and understeer in the AMG makes the steering light.
Try steering around at lower speed than racing speed and you will find the steering won't get light based on rotation.
It gets light when fronts start to slide.
So this tells you that turning the steering more to tighten your line is not the solution, dropping your speed is.
 
Good thing there's telemetry so I will take the time to collect some data, I have to reinstall it first since I am on a new Windows installation.
If you turn out to be correct my world isn't going to come apart since,as already mentioned, I raced this car quite a lot so I am perfectly happy with how it feels.
Nothing like crunching some numbers for breakfast though.
 
the all of sudden light attitude of this car can be cured in my steering wheel by setting up the car.
i set the steering preload to 5 from 11 and brake bias to 52/48 or something
the light feel disappears and car is playable but even at that setting the car can reach the limit cause of different driving and experience the light ffb again but the chances now are lower
 
Will Mazeo said:
Like I said... it's not about limit, this happens at any speed. Or am I pushing the limits when leaving the garage too? :rolleyes:
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Try the Nissan Gt 500 and play with the caster. After that you will know the one and only reason. It was the caster is the caster and will allways be the caster .
 
Andregee said:
Try the Nissan Gt 500 and play with the caster. After that you will know the one and only reason. It was the caster is the caster and will allways be the caster .
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Yeah I know it's the caster, the Ferrari in our EEC GT3 mod for AMS has the same issue, just rise the caster and it goes away.
 
I just found this thread because I also noticed that Mercedes AMG's FFB is weird (goes light when turning). I don't find it in other cars in the GT3 Pack.
I didn't read this whole thread, but is this confirmed problem or is more or less "expected" FFB behavior? If first option then will it be fixed?
 
Andregee said:
Try the Nissan Gt 500 and play with the caster. After that you will know the one and only reason. It was the caster is the caster and will allways be the caster .
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So it’s nothi wrong with the FFB ? In other sims including AC , RR, PC and AMS or even in GT3 World Series mod the AMG doesn’t have this issue and no need to increase caster.
 
This has been a known issue for a while. The merc is broken. I was hopeful it would get fixed at the latest pack release but nothing yet.
 
avenger82 said:
So it’s nothi wrong with the FFB ? In other sims including AC , RR, PC and AMS or even in GT3 World Series mod the AMG doesn’t have this issue and no need to increase caster.
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No the FFB is not damaged. There is no way to exert a great influence on it. The Devs don't sit in hours of tinkering with secret FFB parameters and try to make them usable. It is simply calculated from the physical parameters of the wheel suspension and if the suspension has this structure, then the calculation results in the output values and since S397 cannot simply change the original values by feeling without distorting the physics, this type of FFB comes out.
Also with the F2 this was already a topic, which is why a not real setting with more caster was allowed by the tuning menu. However, not every manufacturer will allow such changes.
The only remedy without falsifying the geometry of the wheel suspension would be to make the calculation of the individual forces laterally, longitudinally and vertically changeable, then we get like in Raceroom and Cars 1+2 x fold sliders and are allowed to make our own FFB, which, if the starting point would be as good as with Rfactor2, would not necessarily be a disadvantage, because also in Cars 2 and Assetto Corsa the AMG shows this annoying behavior, but in Cars 2 it can be completely suppressed by changing the calculation of the individual forces.
By the way, even the Audi R8, the Bentley, and the BMW M6 show a tendency of this behavior, only not so strongly. Also with these vehicles the restoring torque decreases massively in curves and all you still feel is a kind of damping. That's why I don't like this FFB either. The same applies to Assetto Corsa. I also don't like driving the R8, the AMG GT3 and the Hurrancan which is built like the R8
 
[QUOTE="Andregee, post: 970849, member: 32113" because also in Cars 2 and Assetto Corsa the AMG shows this annoying behavior, but in Cars 2 it can be completely suppressed by changing the calculation of the individual forces.
B[/QUOTE]
PC2: nope. I have driven the AMG all the time. FFB profile RAW with values all on default feels nothing like in RF2. there is no "edge" when turning in.
 
1. Different wheel, different behaviour. Even in rFactor2 you can´t notice the effect with an G27 like with an CSW V2.
2.It's not just a matter of "edge" when turning in. There is the loss of the restoring torque which is caused by low caster values.
3. Cars calculates the force different to rFactor2 so you can´t expect absolutely the same behaviour but its not far away from rFactor2 with my wheel.
 
Loss of restoring torque is effect of pneumatic trail being relatively large comparing to mechanical trail. So while low caster values plays a role, it is not a cause of the effect.

For some reason you don't want to accept that such effect is absolutely realistic.
 
I've tried something: https://forum.studio-397.com/index....out-the-merc-gt3-ffb.58495/page-2#post-970907
I think it's relevant to this discussion, too.
d0nd33 said:
I've run some tests: the AMG does indeed have a weaker FFB, but that is because the torque at the steering shaft is also lower. The reason for this has been explained already.
You can confirm this from the telemetry:
zWhyAWI.png

ydPgl6W.png

Red/color: McLaren
White: AMG
I made this test changing only a few setup parameters. You can see that the AMG's FFB force never drops to 0 during corners. In game FFB multiplier: 0.60 for both cars.

Maybe there is a problem with how you've set up your wheel: for example, if you use 100% strength and 1.00 multiplier with a T500, the feel of lightness of the AMG will be a lot more pronounced because of non linear FFB wheel response. I recommend against these settings.
Here you can find my FFB settings, I think they're good for a T500. A minor thing I've changed: I always use 0.60 multiplier because it fits every car and allows for a bit of difference between them, such as they don't all have the same force.

If the AMG's physics are working as intended, in my opinion there is no reason to make any change.
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mantasisg said:
Loss of restoring torque is effect of pneumatic trail being relatively large comparing to mechanical trail. So while low caster values plays a role, it is not a cause of the effect.

For some reason you don't want to accept that such effect is absolutely realistic.
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You should consider the context. It was never about the physical cause of this effect in reality. I know very well that this is real. It's about the fact that low caster values in rFactor 2 massively influence this effect n its strength and are therefore the reason why it is disturbing or not noticeable. Test a vehicle with adjustable caster like the Nissan GT500 and test it yourself.
There's a reason why the Devs provided a More Caster Setting for the Wiiliams F2 via Tuning Setup when the FFB was criticized for exactly the same reason.
 
mantasisg said:
Loss of restoring torque is effect of pneumatic trail being relatively large comparing to mechanical trail. So while low caster values plays a role, it is not a cause of the effect.

For some reason you don't want to accept that such effect is absolutely realistic.
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If indeed that is correct, then the other 9 cars are incorrect. I think most users are not arguing so much for one or the other, just consistency.
 
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