How are we doing on moving out of the open beta phase?

This is a GREAT picture indeed! Thanks for sharing!

 

Then why didn't you wait for gold release?

Like they say - speak for yourself
I'm just fine with paying right now and getting it "as is" to get accustomed to it while waiting for gold release.
I find current level of features sufficient for me to buy lifetime option. Otherwise I would hit "Refund" button not to risk being let down. Of course I expect bugs to be fixed, but that's obvious.
Of course I'm not saying everything is as good as I would like it to be, but good enough allready, so I'm staying

Note that we all were warned that this software may even stop working completely Our choice.

 

It must be the 100th at least exlplaination of this issue? LOL (though Max is constantly repeating it for the last 8? months, so...perhaps it should be communicated in a different way. A drawing maybe?)

 

There are a few reasons. But maybe I believed it will be beta for real?

You again missed the point.
Tim suggested that games released as final are full of bugs. It implicate that second option chosen by ISI gives better quality.
Both those statements may not be true. I played games released without any bugs, or I find no bugs, or there was some minor ones fixed quickly after release.
On other hands current versions of rf2 are basically one big bunch of bugs and issues. Moreover no one may guarantee that gold will be free of issues.

So I asked: why second choice is better? Both may contain bugs. For both ones patches are released (usually).

At the end I said: "I can bet most people...". So, I'm speaking for myself and please notice 'most' word.

 

Some of that beach stuff, related videos has more, so sand was important part of those races, there is beach in Daytona beach

edit: Last convertible race:

 

Nope, I believe it's you who missed the point.
No one said it's a rule that games released as final are full of bugs.
No one said that either approach gives better quality, nor was implying it.

I think we best cut it short. There's no point in discussing the same topic all over again.

Haha, and from such humble beginnings...

 

Tim said:

Tim suggested it, even comparing ISI's plans to EGOSOFT.

it is clear (at least to me) that he put second approach in better light.

Again: in case of both approaches, there are bugs existing, and there are patches released.
So why customer should like second one more? Why to not have final product just after buying it?
And why company chose second approach especially releasing early dev stage with is not suitable (IMO) for public testing.

BTW: I put those questions 3 times already. Everyone has been ignored by you.

 

That's what I'm talking about - you misunderstood these two parts.

First is about devs that release so-called finished product full of bugs. It doesn't say that all released products, that are said to be finished, are like that.

Second is all about continuing to add content and features after releasing "gold" product.
It also says that X series are of good quality, but also states that they don't do open testing. So it doesn't imply that releasing for open testing gives better quality.

 

Because customer might get chance to influence what final becomes or be part of people making final product possible / larger than otherwise?


Anyway, less depressing subjects, here is part II of what I posted part I, Jim C is attempting to win last Daytona beach convertible race 1958, announcer said that at 1959 they would race new modern and safe race track. Must continue watching, need to know if Jim wins

 

And do you believe in this?
Sorry, but we have no any, or just minimal influence at this stage.
There are a few wishlists being compendium of knowledge about what community wants.
- first was on rsc's rfactor forum
- second is open here on forum right now
- I believe there was the third one also, on this forum. I think it has been closed.
- there was also Q&A thread which may give ideas about community needs. Also closed (without answers this time)

It is enough to read it, and implement it. It is no need to release alfa product to get know what community wants.

Only one reason exist for open public relase: testing. but at current stage such kind of testing is just waste of time. Just because any new build contains huge amount of significant changes in core code which may brings new or old bugs to the life. Making such testing, at this stage, just endless.

 

If Tim says something I trust him, he has spoken truth before and I have no reason to doubt what he says.


But what is pointless is arguing from this, you can't do anything about it no matter how much you bring it up, so why to bother?

Watch movie instead, here is part 3 from race, which I believe being very same Johannes's photo was from:

 

to the modding community; you maybe able to answer this better than any1, what do you think ISI has still got left to do, so you can release a full version of anything track ,car ect:??????????? as this would give me some idea how long GOLD is away or your opinion on how long you think its away and what you think is still needed for you to do this?????????

 

Post #13 in this thread has some answers for your questions:
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/6841-How-are-we-doing-on-moving-out-of-the-open-beta-phase?p=85219&viewfull=1#post85219

With tire model for example, there are temporary parameters in tire TGM file, which we don't know how long they are temporary and when they will be changed, I think that I recall reading posts made by ISI staff saying that at current stage one should not be attempting to release their final versions as with any update one might need to rework just about anything.
Source: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/5693-So-here-we-go-AGAIN-%28Build-85%29?p=69135&viewfull=1#post69135

It is done when it is done, meanwhile at least I have my schedule full with trying to figure out tire model and how to make street tires that are not too grippy but not like soap + about million other things to do.

Anyone getting bored for waiting next patch are free to take photos from tires of cars, straight at front so top is shown and trace that shape with splines/vertexes in their favorite cad application so tire is at proper scale and size and do TGM node section geometry parts, then upload those to car modding section for others to use to save bit of modders time so you can get your new mods bit faster. That is just one example, I can give much more stuff that anyone can do and no longer bored from waiting

 

Yeah, to confirm, there is absolutely nothing to stop people releasing mods. HOWEVER, they should keep ALL their source files and information in case they need to adjust for any changes we make. At this point, we're trying to keep things backwards compatible, but can't always guarantee it. We have to do this also, and will have content updates for the same reasons.

 

One of the greatest reasons why there are none/few car mods released is that there are very few if anyone that currently can make really good tires, it takes time to learn and experiment with that, that is when you want car to perform correctly and not just to feel nice.

Even I can make tires that feel great, but when you start to analyze logs and do some tests I find that performance is not correct, to combine performance and feel is difficult and even there are things known some are unknown, which results experiments need to be done, now creating tire takes around 5-6 hours + research that can be easily tens of hours, then one need to do testing, adjusting, testing more, learning how model works etc. Many are unwilling to release anything that looks right, but is not right, which then leads to only few cars released, many seem also demand to make things ready first before releasing, but i think it would result 1-2 years of waiting. Track makers are already released many test releases, but cars are so much more complicated in non graphical way that it will take long time until we see rush of cars coming out.

For physics there are some topics I have created that are attempt to make difficult things more accessible for speakers of plain english (speakers of engineer might not benefit a lot from them), but it is secret attempt to make modding more accessible and maybe show ISI where problems arises and what kind of explanation level is required for common guy to understand those aspects. Oops, it is not so secret now.

Eventually plan is to pull that into documentation, but let's see what becomes out from all that, but anyone is free to go trough topics and pull stuff into rf2 Wiki, that will make mods come out faster as more people can work with mods and time is not spend looking information all over the boards and internet.

 

like what stuff? please elaborate.

 

Everything that has something value in sense of how to make that thing, here is two threads that contain information, but it would be needed to pull out from threads, write to some more easy to follow form with simple terms and then to be added to rf2 Wiki that we have up there in menu bar.

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/6662-Antiroll-Sway-bars

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/2796-The-tgm-and-ttool

Then there is even bigger task of going trough this thread:
http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278913

Those are just discussions and learning, what has spoken need to be written in a way that anyone not modder could walk to a car, find data from net, etc. and then apply ways shown in Wiki to transform realworld measurements, information, data to rF2 HDV, TGM etc. values.

And those three links are just the beginning, there is lot more to it, from graphical aspect I don't even know much of anything about, barely manage to do thing or two mostly with luck and information from some random threads.

But those three links alone can make ones limited freetime to be used for weeks to come, so more people doing it, taking parts and slowly adding in to wiki is perhaps best approach so that task is not too heavy, but every 15mins is 15mins done.

 

Wow, thanks for nice summer reading!

 

Good information there jtbo, will have a read and see what I can do to help get some of that information put onto the wiki.

 

Thx guys, it will benefit whole community

There are even more, but under talking right now, like brakes, aerodynamics. Suspension travel I have general idea, but I need to do some writing with that etc.

Quite often there will be also more learning happening during discussions, even 'ready' discussion there can be more added later, but it might be good to get wiki stuff started from what currently there is and refine it constantly as more is talked. At least in my head idea is such. I'm enough stupid to do all mistakes and things at wrong way so with writeups rest can do it right way first time