G25/27 horrendous rattling

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stonec said:
Kinsman, thanks for the configs. Both of these, however, still produce unacceptable amount of rattling for my G27 when driving at Sepang with the Formula Masters car. The only way I can achieve anywhere close to a silent result is by using a steering torque filter > 10 (or Skip updates > 10, which efficiently does the same thing).
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Yeah I've been working moreso on these and the next 'update' I was going to do included adding a torque filter around the 6 mark for the light package and 8 for the medium one.

The problem is in the config files you have a straight option to control how much force goes to the wheel, how much this is multiplied when going off track, the forces experienced on 'fake' rumble strips and the wheel weight - there's no separate option to control the effect on things like real rumble strips.

All I tried to do was iron out some of the off-road and kerbing forces while trying to retain as much feel from the wheel on track as possible.

It's a hard balance, and the primary aim was to do this without implementing the filter, but it seems now this is (not exactly impossible, but) bloody difficult.
 
after some research i just ordered a t500. and will sell the g27 to help pay for a new shifter. i have been through all the threads and tried everything mentioned but it really does not help. changing the steering torque filter seems to take away alot of feeling on track too.

But as i live with other people it would be very selfish of me too use the g27 as the noise is just way to much,
and i think this is going to be a big problem when the game gets released.

potential buyers should be told this before purchase, as i bet there are many g25/27 owners who for one reason or another who will find the noise a big problem.

and really none of the solutions so far really help.
anyway hoping ill be fine with the t500. but is alot of money. if its lasts a few years it will be worth it.
 
Great choice

The g27 has been a good wheel, but it is very dated now (although I still like it), for the price the t500 is a good step
 
thepower said:
after some research i just ordered a t500. and will sell the g27 to help pay for a new shifter. i have been through all the threads and tried everything mentioned but it really does not help. changing the steering torque filter seems to take away alot of feeling on track too.

But as i live with other people it would be very selfish of me too use the g27 as the noise is just way to much,
and i think this is going to be a big problem when the game gets released.

potential buyers should be told this before purchase, as i bet there are many g25/27 owners who for one reason or another who will find the noise a big problem.

and really none of the solutions so far really help.
anyway hoping ill be fine with the t500. but is alot of money. if its lasts a few years it will be worth it.
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I just have to ask because there seems to be conflicting assumptions. Is the "rattle free" force feedback (I.e. if you use enough torque filter to eliminate rattling) worse in rf2 than in rf1 or should it be comparable? The reason I ask is that Tim said he didn't want to "dumb down" the ffb to accommodate the g27 but also says that torque filter does what we need to be rattle free. Which one is it?
 
Kknorpp001 said:
I just have to ask because there seems to be conflicting assumptions. Is the "rattle free" force feedback (I.e. if you use enough torque filter to eliminate rattling) worse in rf2 than in rf1 or should it be comparable? The reason I ask is that Tim said he didn't want to "dumb down" the ffb to accommodate the g27 but also says that torque filter does what we need to be rattle free. Which one is it?
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i have used a g25/27 for years and tried nearly every sim and some other racing games , and never had a really bad noise any problem until rfactor 2. rfactor 1 is nothing like rfactor 2, they wheel is really loud and shakes really violently with rfactor 2,

no other game i've tried has the same effect as rfactor 2. maybe modders will do something to help when the game is released as there are lots of really talented people out there , they for me are what made rfactor so great .

when the game goes gold there will be many many g27 owners who buy the game and i bet many will not be happy.

for now it depends how ISI see it, before its released they could have a look at it or leave it !

i know if i were a developer what i would do as there are alot of g25/27 owners , and upsetting so many customers does not seem like a good idea to me.

to tell them all to turn the force feedback down or off aint going to go down to well with the customers.



anyway this is my last moan , as ill be ok with my t500 when i gets here .
 
I for one appreciate the wonderful direct feeling, but since all other sims seem to deliver filtered output to FF-motors while rf2 doesn't (which can cause rattling), perhaps the default mode in "gold" RF2 should be "filtered FF" and you can have the option to turn the filters off and get the proper experience, with a little warning note that it may cause rattling.

If I understand it correctly it's not really about telling people to turn their FF down to prevent rattling, it's telling people to set FF the way it's handled in the other games (filtered).
 
Axly said:
I for one appreciate the wonderful direct feeling, but since all other sims seem to deliver filtered output to FF-motors while rf2 doesn't (which can cause rattling), perhaps the default mode in "gold" RF2 should be "filtered FF" and you can have the option to turn the filters off and get the proper experience, with a little warning note that it may cause rattling.
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Exactly what kind of filtering other sims use in FFB? There is good reason to filter out high frequency vibrations, for similar reasons that audio signals are bandlimited to less than half the sampling rate. For example, if an FFB wheel can receive force updates at 100 Hz rate, it would not make sense to send higher than 50Hz rattles to it (probably even lower frequency should be the maximum). That's why there should be wheel-specific filtering, and/or user configurable. And for what its worth, in real cars track surface detail does not mainly "rattle" or "vibrate" the wheel by rapid left-right movements. Also, tyres and other non-ridig bits and pieces between track surface and steering wheel dampen the high-frequency vibrations a lot.
 
brr said:
...That's why there should be wheel-specific filtering, and/or user configurable...
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True, and I agree, as long as that doesn't mean that I'm forced to use the delay that such a filter can impose, see what I wrote above.

brr said:
...Also, tyres and other non-ridig bits and pieces between track surface and steering wheel dampen the high-frequency vibrations a lot...
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Well, it dampens, probably a bit mimilar to the way a belt drive wheel does, by adding flex in the entire line.. which is totally acceptable. The way you can filter inputs here it sort of delays the feedback a little, and at least when I tried it everything over 4 felt quite unresponsive.
As long as I stay on the track I absolutely love the "go-kart" feeling where every little detail is fed back to me, and when I go into the gravel it rattles like hell.. After applying filter, the off-road bits were much smoother, but I felt I was driving a Cadillac Eldorado with semi-flat tires when on the track.

If there was a way to keep the crisp response while toning down the rattle when veering out into the gravel I'd definately use it, but if the choice were between as-is or laggy filters I'd choose as it is now without a doubt. The noise doesn't disturb me.
 
Kknorpp001 said:
I just have to ask because there seems to be conflicting assumptions. Is the "rattle free" force feedback (I.e. if you use enough torque filter to eliminate rattling) worse in rf2 than in rf1 or should it be comparable? The reason I ask is that Tim said he didn't want to "dumb down" the ffb to accommodate the g27 but also says that torque filter does what we need to be rattle free. Which one is it?
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IMHO it's still better than rF1+realfeel, even when filtered. But try it and see what you think?
 
Tim Wheatley said:
IMHO it's still better than rF1+realfeel, even when filtered. But try it and see what you think?
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I tone down ffb for my g25 (sometimes a lot), but there is no comparison between RF1+realfeel and RF2 for me.
There is no way I would go back to RF1 after trying RF2 in any setting.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
IMHO it's still better than rF1+realfeel, even when filtered. But try it and see what you think?
Click to expand...

I prefer no filtering and now that I have decided not to worry about wheel damage. I was just curious about when you said that addressing g27 ffb would be "low on the list" and that would not want to "dumb down" ffb,but this doesn't make sense b/c there is nothing that needs to be done if only solution is to add torque filter like other sims. So what I am trying to say is that there is nothing ISI could do to make g27 better so did not understand the statement that would not want to dumb down ffb for everyone, I.e. belt wheels but that wouldn't make sense anyway if filter is the solution. I think from my perspective is that I felt like ISI was turning its back on the g27 and not making ffb as good as it could be and you also mentioned the need to cutover tones technology etc. but that is moot if all that is needed is filter and that is there so anyway I am on your side b/c I am American and have a big house :-)
 
Tony said:
Yea I agree!

Someone recently posted the idea of a slider for the torque filter in "Controls" for G25/7 owners - seems a crackin' idea :)
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And to add to that idea it would be good to have co figurable for specific car/track combos like car setup b/c some combos are really bad and others like Clio croft are really smooth so woukdn't want to miss details on that track but will keep neighbors up on other combos.
 
Kknorpp001 said:
I prefer no filtering and now that I have decided not to worry about wheel damage. I was just curious about when you said that addressing g27 ffb would be "low on the list" and that would not want to "dumb down" ffb,but this doesn't make sense b/c there is nothing that needs to be done if only solution is to add torque filter like other sims. So what I am trying to say is that there is nothing ISI could do to make g27 better so did not understand the statement that would not want to dumb down ffb for everyone, I.e. belt wheels but that wouldn't make sense anyway if filter is the solution. I think from my perspective is that I felt like ISI was turning its back on the g27 and not making ffb as good as it could be and you also mentioned the need to cutover tones technology etc. but that is moot if all that is needed is filter and that is there so anyway I am on your side b/c I am American and have a big house :-)
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That post, and dumbing down, was about them attempting to take time to write FFB especially for the G25 and G27, which I frankly don't think they'll do, as that too would have to be filtered... Was mainly trying to find a way I could find what would be best for the community and take that to the dev team. But I really think they've already done what needs to be done, it probably just needs to be added to the auto detect and to the UI (filtering, that is). I'm not an American, but I do live there. And my house is really small, I rent. :)
 
Tim Wheatley said:
That post, and dumbing down, was about them attempting to take time to write FFB especially for the G25 and G27, which I frankly don't think they'll do, as that too would have to be filtered... Was mainly trying to find a way I could find what would be best for the community and take that to the dev team. But I really think they've already done what needs to be done, it probably just needs to be added to the auto detect and to the UI (filtering, that is). I'm not an American, but I do live there. And my house is really small, I rent. :)
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Makes sense to me, Tim. Thanks for the reply.
 
MaXyM said:
Any news?
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They just replied telling me the rattling was normal, and expected, but didn't go as far as saying anything else that I asked them. I just emailed their regular customer service email, so that you guys would be able to replicate my response if you didn't believe me. I'll wait a bit and try again, maybe get a different rep who will answer everything asked. ;)
 
Tim Wheatley said:
They just replied telling me the rattling was normal, and expected, but didn't go as far as saying anything else that I asked them. I just emailed their regular customer service email, so that you guys would be able to replicate my response if you didn't believe me. I'll wait a bit and try again, maybe get a different rep who will answer everything asked. ;)
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Thanks for following up, Tim. Rattling doesn't bother me now that I have decided not to worry about damage. Worst case, if Obama is re-elected he will buy me a belt driven wheel when my Logitech breaks...
 
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