Future plans for rF2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Martin Vindis, Feb 26, 2024.

  1. trichens

    trichens Registered

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    You'd have to think that Stephen Hood's comments here have just called time on rF2 development and new DLC.
    What we have today is the "final product".

    Perhaps, if we are lucky, any serious issues might get fixed, but LMU is where the future is going to be, and rF3 when it appears will be, I'd suspect, less open to third party mods.
    Hopefully MSG will keep the Race Control online offering available but that obviously costs them money to run,
     
  2. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    IIRC he did say something about BTCC on tFactor 2 but that´s about were It ends as far as this sim. The new reworked netcode wont make It to rFactor 2 either, so yeah keeping Race Control alive here Is on minimum vitals.

    Future does not look bright for rFactor 2, more so now after the statements of Mr. Hood which kind of let´s this sim fade away, or It seems so.

    It´s not to clear yet for MSG either, there Is more focus on the online aspect of LMU then anything else, and just a hint that a career mode Is In mind but that would also be tied to online, which Is not to favorable for those looking to get their racing needs offline. Aside from the subscription mode which again Is a online feature.

    Having said that, this will also have a Impact on those who will buy the future DLC´s as some of those "offline" players just might shy away from spending any more money.

    LMU just feels like a upgraded version of rFactor 2 In a smaller package, still no career mode, or Championship and all you can do offline Is race against the AI In you´re favorite "quality" car or track. So In that sense It all seems the same, or "almost" for now. The only real advancement Is co-op and the netcode, which again Is for online players, and that overall LMU Is a more refined and polished product and a better basis to build on.

    Just my opinion, cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
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  3. Love Guitars n Cars

    Love Guitars n Cars Registered

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    Smart choice to cancel rF3 over LMU. An officially licensed WEC product will be more popular than a rF3 would have been any day of the week.
     
  4. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Will the Co-op mode be run online, offline, or both?
     
  5. Ayrton de Lima

    Ayrton de Lima Registered

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    Finally someone who understands something! Nobody doesn't need rF3, update 2 and everything is fine.
     
  6. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    Exactly.

    Fully update rfactor 2 gradually this would be the best solution.

    New functionality, debugging, various optimizations, various improvements, progressive updating of a significant part of the content, new DLC or even a few little free surprises here and there.

    So much better than LMU + rF3 combined.

    (Regarding LMU, several DLCs and different packs containing the content in rfactor 2 associated with the LMU improvements would have been infinitely more favorable both to the rFactor 2 user base but to all simracers.

    What motivated their decision was only money, only money, not our interest.

    I don't know what's complicated to understand about that.)


     
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  7. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yeah, how dare they do what's best for income.

    Seriously, they just need a handful of benefactors to pump in 30-50 million. Job done.


    There's what you (we) want as users, and there's what they need to do as a company, as a studio. We can argue about how they do it (like 'little fixes' that take too long to happen) and how that might impact user numbers, but rF2 had a good influx of DLC in the last few years and evidently that wasn't covering costs, let alone bringing in enough income to invest in more core development.

    I know the comparisons can seem inane, but over there is F1xx doing yet another annual update of mostly the same tracks with basically the same game mechanics (and many of the same unfixed bugs) selling for full price, meanwhile how long ago did you pay for rF2? If an rF3 happens (probably in several years, during which rF2 remains fully functional, at least) maybe it's not such a huge imposition to pay for it, and some content you want to drive at that time, in order to help make it happen. "rF2 for life" just might not be feasible.
     
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  8. trichens

    trichens Registered

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    I agree @Lazza.
    I bought rF2 four years ago and ALL the updates, bug fixes and enhancements have come at no additional cost.
    I can't imagine any other business operating like that over any extended period.
    And yet if MSG were to say the next upgrade (not bug fixes) for rF2 would incur a charge of £5/$5 users would go "ballistic".

    And although we would like rF2 to have features and improvements from LMU, that only requires one that breaks backward compatibility and all hell would break loose.
    All those third party mods would cease working and probably most of the existing DLC.
    Who wants their complete BTCC DLC cars package to not work in a new rF2?
     
  9. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    To simplify things and say them in a more basic way :

    An extremely poorly reputed company (MSG) bought rFactor 2 (I specify that I formed my opinion for myself and I did not let myself be influenced by those who for months said it), but they bought rFactor 2 not to make it evolve or to keep it alive or to improve it for a few more years, but very clearly to make it sink and fail.

    Their objective was probably not specifically for this to happen, but the fact that they chose to buy it for reasons other than to make it progress, but to create LMU (we objectively did not have needed as a simracer because it could have been integrated perfectly and equally well into rFactor 2) :

    With the inexorable consequence of literally killing rfactor 2.

    It is a lack of respect for the loyal user base for 12 years of rfactor 2, as well as total nonsense from a user point of view whether it is the rFactor 2 user base or the other simracers.

    From a financial point of view it may be wise for them I grant you and even then it is not even certain, no one can prove it factually.

    So yes they won't have my money for their next product including DLC unless it's on rfactor 2 of course.

    And yes Lazza, as it stands rFactor 2 is already exceptional, that’s obvious.
    But it is not because it is already exceptional that it is perfect, and it is not because it is already exceptional that we legitimately could not consider that it was necessary for it to improve further.

    Both for rFactor 2 fans but also all simracers.

    And I confirm again that it would have been 10 times more judicious to continue with rfactor 2 by gradually improving it in all aspects, rather than creating new licenses, particularly LMU.

    I'm talking here about the interest of both rfactor 2 fans and all simracers (*US*).

    I honestly have absolutely nothing to do with their financial interests, especially since this company is buying rfactor 2 for everything except rfactor 2, which I find reprehensible and which you should also find reprehensible = kill rFactor 2.
     
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  10. elgagon

    elgagon Registered

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    Who knows.
    If the development of every sim is quick because they have a good base to work with (rF2), this can be a good idea (from the bussiness point of view and from the point of view of the fans of the series)
     
  11. Allwin20200

    Allwin20200 Registered

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    I also think that buying a game (easily less than 10€ on sale) and have updates regularly for years and years is not sustainable: unless new people buy it year after year, or people who owns it spend money on DLCs regularly.
    I though with the new online mode and the silver/gold series they would finally achieve the second one (myself, for example, spent some money on tracks and cars, which I didn't do in the previous years, and I'd do more and more every now and then IF the online was as alive as when racecontrol started).

    If this model doesn't work, the other one to keep income and updates regularly is iRacing style subscriptions, and TBH I don't like it (because if I am subscribed I feel 'forced' to play) but if the content is good I wouldn't mind.

    I think those are the only money making models that I think they'll work for now, but thinking what's best for simracers... I honestly don't know (and to pay 10€ for rf2 and expect to be free for years, with regular updates, free cars, free tracks... is not realistic)

    At least we still have mods and private leagues, I guess :)
     
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  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Mate, get your head out of your backside.

    ISI stopped developing rF2, for whatever reason, and it wasn't because it was a money tree.

    S397 advanced it a lot, and wound up in a position where a buyer was needed to do any more.

    Do you get the gist here? A "buy once, let them do what they want with leagues etc and not pay anything" model doesn't pay for development. DLC probably barely paid for itself, if it even did that.


    You don't need to continually explain yourself, we actually do get it. rF2 would be better if they did what you said, no doubt. Unfortunately that needs someone very generous to just pour money into it with very little hope of getting any of it back (because even if rF2 were perfect tomorrow, it's got a reputation that will keep people away).

    Badmouthing a company because they aren't doing the impossible is just ridiculous, whether you do it off your own bat or because you believe what others say (and hey, good for you for making your own mind up, but have a look at what's actually going on here).

    Pointless.
     
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  13. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    Because MSG's choices lead directly and undoubtedly to the death of rFactor 2, while for 3 years it has been in extremely good condition, good or even excellent in all aspects but not perfect of course, strongly displeases me and I say it very clearly.

    As a result, I will not support products like LMU or the like.

    On the other hand obviously, I very much regret that the rFactor 2 simulation, which is currently the best of all and by a long way but not perfect, and which really had by far the greatest potential from a point of view car driving enthusiast who uses a simulator to train, is not only abandoned, but that approximately everything is done to kill rFactor 2.

    Anyway, LMU's success really isn't great to be honest and that's a good thing.

    My little finger tells me that if MSG had made the not ideal choice at all, but best in any case than LMU, to do rfactor 3, certainly the same in beta version and so on, the success would have been greater and even much greater :

    People would have been much more inclined to buy DLC on a platform like this because the DLC would have been incredibly diverse and exciting track and car content than that present in LMU.

    I understand your reasoning Lazza even if I don't share it at all :

    But honestly don't take that in a negative way at all because that's not at all the purpose of this sentence, but you are one of the oldest rfactor 2 users, the one who has by far the most posted messages on the forum and perhaps even on the discord and indeed you are perhaps even the user who has tried to help others most often users are wasting your time.
    Once again this is not at all a personal message or a negative message to you, but I do not understand why you do not understand a little better the reasoning that I addressed above :

    Namely simply that the rFactor 2 death wanted directly or indirectly by MSG's is totally against both the world of SIM racing and especially fans of rFactor 2 like you who have been using the product for more than 11 years.

    I'm surprised that you don't mind that a company buys this product solely for the purpose of making another with the implication that it destroys the product you have used for 11 years, a product that for 3 years has been everything completely viable in all aspects.

    Probably less on a financial level, but on all user aspects and functionality rfactor 2 should not have been replaced by LMU it is nonsense for all car driving enthusiasts who use a simulator.

    In any case, I have presented my arguments and my thoughts, I have nothing more specific to say so I will not say more in other messages.

    Some say that the future is LMU which I strongly doubt especially seeing the usage figures, even though the future could totally and completely have been rfactor 2, that date of creation having no link with its end date since it could very well have continued like that to improve and have new content, an improved rfactor 2 could have meant in some way an rfactor 3 which does not say its name.

    My arguments are here, I won't elaborate further, it's useless isn't it, I think that once we have mentioned these arguments, there is no point in adding more.

    Have a good day ! :)
     
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  14. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans Registered

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    Please allow me to clarify this. In the years that Studio 397 operated under Luminis, we consistently made a profit. It was my intention to keep developing rFactor 2 for many more years. From a technical standpoint, that is what you would do anyway, keep evolving the base. The only real decision was to break backward compatibility at some point and use that opportunity to release a new version of rFactor (so version 3). I am confident that path would have worked out fine. So why did things change? Basically Motorsport Games made Luminis a very generous offer to buy Studio 397 and the shareholders at Luminis accepted that offer.
     
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  15. Ayrton de Lima

    Ayrton de Lima Registered

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    People talk about profit and this and that, now how does Raceroom survive with just a free game that sells dlcs and has a similar number of players to rF2? My biggest sadness was not seeing an advanced hybrid car like the 919 at its time, and in the end it seems like we're going to be left with nothing, just fake hybrid cars (URD, ASMG), they talk about breaking the base content, but the cars that are already coming With the game, those who came from ISI already have their graphics broken and Marussia itself doesn't even have the LEDs on, in other words, it's already broken, so take it out of the game and put new cars in, as I gave as an example, Raceroom is a Free game which only sells DLC, some of them were DLCs and are now free content, and you don't see the studio talking about a new game and there's no charge for the online system game, in the end it's all MSG's bullshit.
     
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  16. trichens

    trichens Registered

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    MSG were committed ( over committed? ) to creating three games ( WEC, BTCC and IndyCar ) with no way of actually achieving that.
    I think it's fair to say the MSG didn't have a lot of choice so Luminis had them "over a barrel" as we'd say in the UK.
    The alternative would have been to start from scratch like RennSport has done.
     
  17. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    Sorry for the off topic but out of curiosity, what was RennSport before starting off from scratch?
    BTW, KW Studios did talk about a newer version of RaceRoom In It´s recent Interview with It´s CEO at the beginning of this year.
     
  18. trichens

    trichens Registered

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    Alledgedly... RennSport has some rF2 "influences" but it's been in development for a couple of years and still - I think - at closed beta stage. I have a key but I really don't like it TBH.
     
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  19. MikeV710

    MikeV710 Registered

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    Oh ok, thank you! Not for me, It´s on Unreal Engine which personally I don´t think Is a good engine for simulation.
     
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  20. SharD

    SharD Registered

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    Indeed.

    Players aren't a charity service and I have 0 interest in paying a subscription for rFactor 2 - a game that hasn't gotten a meaningful update in over a year - in order to finance a game (LMU) that I am not going to play. Failing business strategies aren't my problem to fix. I play my own made content and suddenly holding that hostage behind a paywall is something akin to ransomware.

    That's simply how it is.

    And nevermind that MSG is basically the SimDream of game developers. How many undelivered promises are there by now?
     

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