Don't want to start discussion about that, but I won't be so sure about that "completness" of rF 1, with all its issues and some things done in a weird ways ;-)
I hope though, they learned on their mistakes and rF 2 will be more "polished".
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
Hate to use the 'MMO development' description, but that's really what rF1 was (ie: updates aplenty). I was on the outside at that point and not with ISI, but I thought it awesome that they released updates for years on something which customers had paid for once.
Tim, updates are not enough to make product 'complete'.
In case of rF1, updates have fixed things. Moreover some important new added things have contained serious bugs which are still not fixed till today (ie driver swap issue which ruined a lot of endurance races). There are more inconsistencies in sounds, lighting model, shading, tyre physics, 3d scenes and other areas. Note that rF1 even if a few times updated, is not supported any more for years.
To be honest, when rF1 was released, it was outdated in gfx and sfx area. Even if physics engine is good and still one of the top ones, ForceFeedback is far from perfection limiting physical engine effects. Those are clear and painful facts.
To be 'best of the best', rF2 should be released 2 years ago including all features 'planed' today. But nowadays we don't even know if those ones will be included in release.
So, what will happen if rF2 released in 6 months will be outdated again? Don't know if you got my point.
best regards
In case of rF1, updates have fixed things. Moreover some important new added things have contained serious bugs which are still not fixed till today (ie driver swap issue which ruined a lot of endurance races). There are more inconsistencies in sounds, lighting model, shading, tyre physics, 3d scenes and other areas. Note that rF1 even if a few times updated, is not supported any more for years.
To be honest, when rF1 was released, it was outdated in gfx and sfx area. Even if physics engine is good and still one of the top ones, ForceFeedback is far from perfection limiting physical engine effects. Those are clear and painful facts.
To be 'best of the best', rF2 should be released 2 years ago including all features 'planed' today. But nowadays we don't even know if those ones will be included in release.
So, what will happen if rF2 released in 6 months will be outdated again? Don't know if you got my point.
best regards
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xTr3me
Registered
I don´t agree. In my opinion when rF1 was released , it was far the best racing simulation on the market. Ok driver swap had some bugs but you have to consider which game, except of rFactor had that feature?
I hope rFactor 2 will have enhanced physics, better graphics, better athmosphere( animations) and I am happy^^
By the way it would be nice to see some new rF2 screens^^
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
Didn't say they were. 
What I said is that it was great what the community got for the one-time.
I can't say I agree on rF1 being out of date graphics wise upon 2005 release. I remember seeing the games back then. rF2 features list you refer to hasn't been released, so I'm not sure what should have been put out two years ago from the unreleased list. But again, I don't honestly agree and I honestly don't get your point, no. There are features being developed in rF2 that I certainly have not seen released and/or in development elsewhere, so how exactly is rF2 two years behind when IMHO it is clearly not?
Confused.
What I said is that it was great what the community got for the one-time.I can't say I agree on rF1 being out of date graphics wise upon 2005 release. I remember seeing the games back then. rF2 features list you refer to hasn't been released, so I'm not sure what should have been put out two years ago from the unreleased list. But again, I don't honestly agree and I honestly don't get your point, no. There are features being developed in rF2 that I certainly have not seen released and/or in development elsewhere, so how exactly is rF2 two years behind when IMHO it is clearly not?
Confused.
@xTr3me,
driving swap was added in next to the last release and never worked correctly. Don't refer to this feature because it is useless at this point for serious racing. Only one thing which ISI said about it was that they know the the problem but it will be not fixed in rF1.
@Tim
I didn't say rF2 is 2 years behind. I said that it would be hi-end product 2 years ago for sure.
I'm afraid that features awaited for release are good enough today but may be outdated in 6months. Or can you give us guarantee that for example lighting model is as good as known from CryEngine3? I don't think so because we saw the same gfx issues as in rf1.
About rf1. In 2005, Fresnel effect has been known well and implemented in other titles. Surround sound was standard in other games. GTL released in 2005 was gfx a bit better (eye-candies, possibility to damage headlights etc). The last patch of rf2 has been released in 2007 but GTR2 released in 2006 has rain, graphical eye-candies, lot better FF.
I don't want to argue making a flame war and hate to show weak points of rFactor, believe me. But I don't like blind enthusiasm.
driving swap was added in next to the last release and never worked correctly. Don't refer to this feature because it is useless at this point for serious racing. Only one thing which ISI said about it was that they know the the problem but it will be not fixed in rF1.
@Tim
I didn't say rF2 is 2 years behind. I said that it would be hi-end product 2 years ago for sure.
I'm afraid that features awaited for release are good enough today but may be outdated in 6months. Or can you give us guarantee that for example lighting model is as good as known from CryEngine3? I don't think so because we saw the same gfx issues as in rf1.
About rf1. In 2005, Fresnel effect has been known well and implemented in other titles. Surround sound was standard in other games. GTL released in 2005 was gfx a bit better (eye-candies, possibility to damage headlights etc). The last patch of rf2 has been released in 2007 but GTR2 released in 2006 has rain, graphical eye-candies, lot better FF.
I don't want to argue making a flame war and hate to show weak points of rFactor, believe me. But I don't like blind enthusiasm.
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ZeosPantera
Registered
You sir may have a poor taste in force-feedback. Talk about numb. I agree rF1 may have been lacking but with Realfeel it is as good as I have felt. But I haven't had any free weeks of iRacing which is suppose to have "the best"..
xTr3me
Registered
I doubt a small team is able, to do such lighting models, as a big team like Crytek can. In my opinion both FF and graphics was in general better than GTR2. Moreover GTR and GTL uses the same engine as rFactor, but an older one ^^
GTrFreak
Registered
Well, I can understand that point of view, but I do not agree. I think rFactor wasn't the best of the best, out of the virtual box Nevertheless, I think it had the greatest potential of games, of that year.. Today, we have the proof of that. Sure, it needed updates and yes, we still have no rain in rF1. But honestly, I do prefer playing rFactor over GTR², because of the community, net code, variety of verhicles/tracks/styles of racing. It's costumizable to the bone and still enjoy the different perspective of modders, for each type of racing.
To think of rFactor, being a base for it's sequel, is beyond my fantasy really. Sure, it won't be finished when released, will feel 'naked' when we first fire it up. But think of what it will be like next year, and with the features like self-shadowing/dynamic reflections/rain/new tire model/new FFB BEING JUST the BASE of the next 5 years of Modding!
Huge post for saying nearly nothing, that's what I'm good at!! Nevertheless, the point is:
All aspects of the base for mods, which is what rF2 will be, will be improved over the years, just as rFactor1. I hope this base will be very good to begin with, so simply said: the longer it will be in development for the first release, the better the base to build on!
Damnit, let's just wait one year, it'll be even better at the end of '11!!
(joke)
rF2 all the way!
Nevertheless, I think it had the greatest potential of games, of that year.. Today, we have the proof of that. Sure, it needed updates and yes, we still have no rain in rF1. But honestly, I do prefer playing rFactor over GTR², because of the community, net code, variety of verhicles/tracks/styles of racing. It's costumizable to the bone and still enjoy the different perspective of modders, for each type of racing.To think of rFactor, being a base for it's sequel, is beyond my fantasy really. Sure, it won't be finished when released, will feel 'naked' when we first fire it up. But think of what it will be like next year, and with the features like self-shadowing/dynamic reflections/rain/new tire model/new FFB BEING JUST the BASE of the next 5 years of Modding!
Huge post for saying nearly nothing, that's what I'm good at!! Nevertheless, the point is:
All aspects of the base for mods, which is what rF2 will be, will be improved over the years, just as rFactor1. I hope this base will be very good to begin with, so simply said: the longer it will be in development for the first release, the better the base to build on!
Damnit, let's just wait one year, it'll be even better at the end of '11!!
(joke)rF2 all the way!
Size doesn't matter this time ;-) Small team will do things longer than big one. So the question is, have they enough time to implement everything that should be implemented (come on, it's almost 2011. There are expectations - rF 2 can't be slightly updated rF 2. Not after 5 or more years of developement).
By the way, keep in mind that at the beginning, Crytek was just a group of...3 people?
But the development have to keep up none the less. You can't, for example, do weather effects now and believe that after 3 years (example, to show the point) it will be still top-notch.
Gonzo
Member
i agree that rf1 has bugs and missing stuff, but which game hasnt this?
Its still the most complete.
Allows modding, multiplayer, nascar, formula, gt car, whatever you need can be simulated pretty good and rf2 will be improved in almost all parts.
in the end its up to you if you want it or not, but no doubt i will be there from the first day on.
rFactor1 was the beginning, and told us what quality and further development can be.
Its still the most complete.
Allows modding, multiplayer, nascar, formula, gt car, whatever you need can be simulated pretty good and rf2 will be improved in almost all parts.
in the end its up to you if you want it or not, but no doubt i will be there from the first day on.
rFactor1 was the beginning, and told us what quality and further development can be.
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
Well there's a big difference between releasing:
A complete working and hopefully bug free title with some features coming later - or - a title you know to have bugs and non-working features and then putting a patch out on release day or something (and yes, I've bought those titles too and it is annoying).
There also might be a difference between what we consider complete and ship, and what YOU do. We'll see. That's really up to the head honcho.
A complete working and hopefully bug free title with some features coming later - or - a title you know to have bugs and non-working features and then putting a patch out on release day or something (and yes, I've bought those titles too and it is annoying).
There also might be a difference between what we consider complete and ship, and what YOU do. We'll see. That's really up to the head honcho.
Michael Juliano
Track Team
This is a common misconception--rF2 has NOT been in development for five years. At most I'd say it's been in serious production for 1.5 years. Sure we were working on some elements before that, but most of our time from the release of rF1 up until said year and a half ago has been spent working on rF1 updates, producing products for various customers, etc. Since we don't just pump out game after game after game each year, we need to do other things to keep us going. That said, I think when the sim is finally out you'll find that it is a big step up from rF1...
That said, the question is how much can a small team get done in 1.5 years? What we hope is that what we have done, we've done well; and, as with rF1, people will view it as an ever-growing product that you can enjoy over many years. Will it have everything at release--no. Will we continue to work on it long after release to include the things we couldn't get to initially--yes.
Will we be "out of date" if we don't release RIGHT NOW--no, but it's possible someone else may implement an idea we've had. That happens all the time. But I also think that we will have a lot of unique features, too. And, more importantly than all of this, will we have a great sim that you can enjoy year after year as it continues to grow--most definitely, yes. We just need a bit more time to get the initial version as polished, feature complete, and bug free as we possibly can--so we're all just going to have to be patient a little longer.
GTrFreak
Registered
In the F1 2010 forums, some months ago, there was growing a huge hype around the game. Shame really, as it's a total disappointment IMO. That's the main reason I have a good feeling over the development of rF2. ISI is being realistic, grown up and just really honest about the development. No hypes, realistic expectations and above all: very constructive posts from both Forum Members AND Staff.
May I thank you ISI for this form of PR ?? So much better then those bigger companies, eventually being flamed for lying, deceiving and sometimes even theft (I've read all!)
May I thank you ISI for this form of PR ?? So much better then those bigger companies, eventually being flamed for lying, deceiving and sometimes even theft (I've read all!)
@Scott
Interview with Gjon, made by InsideSimRacing, was over 2,5 year ago... ;-)
Of course I know (maybe not "know", but I can imagine) how it's going. It's in constant developement. In the same time, I guess, some of the work done with rF Pro and/or other projects has been used in what we call right now "rFactor 2".
If you changed the way you work and you do it right now like the rest of dev teams (finish one product and start another one, from screach) and you started working on rF 2 1,5 year ago then OK (of course it's not my bussiness to know that), but from interviews with Gjon I thought it looks like a constant developement
Let's hope rF 2 will be really a huge step forward
Interview with Gjon, made by InsideSimRacing, was over 2,5 year ago... ;-)
Of course I know (maybe not "know", but I can imagine) how it's going. It's in constant developement. In the same time, I guess, some of the work done with rF Pro and/or other projects has been used in what we call right now "rFactor 2".
If you changed the way you work and you do it right now like the rest of dev teams (finish one product and start another one, from screach) and you started working on rF 2 1,5 year ago then OK (of course it's not my bussiness to know that), but from interviews with Gjon I thought it looks like a constant developement
Let's hope rF 2 will be really a huge step forward
Gonzo
Member
Simply calculate license costs plus employee costs for about 5 years and then calculate how much copies of rfactor for around 35€ you have to buy.
We do not have to be A. Einstein to see that they have to focus other procets from time to time to generate income.
ITs not EA-Sports.
Smaller, but better
.
We do not have to be A. Einstein to see that they have to focus other procets from time to time to generate income.
ITs not EA-Sports.
Smaller, but better
.