[REL] 1991 Group C v1.1 Released

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Petros Mak, Dec 24, 2015.

  1. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Registered

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    While I join some servers people ask me about car setups (Porsche and Mazda). Isn't possible to detail each setup for each track, so I'll try to give some general tips about how to setup the cars, to save testing time. The most important things are already in the manual.

    - Over all the other things, the most important is fuel, always. You could go as a rocket, but it isn't the most important, if you have to use a ton of fuel, you will lost all that gained time at the pits. You must start with the lowest boost/mixture possible (possition 7 or 8/15 on the Porsche, mixture "Endurance" on the Mazda). Later with the setup stablished, rise the boost/mixture if needed, but don't start with maximum boost/mixture because power will mask the setups problems. Start with few and then add if needed. Races are a pit stop chess, make a friend your race engineer to help you while you drive.

    - High and Low downforce: It could be a tentation to use the low downforce at some tracks as Paul Ricard, Road America or other fast tracks, BUT, after some laps you will realize that the front tyres dies quickly. Use High downforce configuration at front at every track unless you are at Le Mans or Daytona. Even on those tracks a High downforce could work, it's all about what's your better rythm.

    - Rev up the Mazda as high as you can at every gear (taking care of the rev limiter), because the power peak is exactly at 9000 RPM. If you don't feel confortable reving so high lower the mixture because other way you are using too much fuel all the time without reaching the power peak.

    - Use the WSC engine on the Porsche first, unless you want a brutal peak of power in a short time lapse, if that's what you need for your car setup then use the IMSA engine. (We know the IMSA engine is the default engine, but we uses it to set the AI cars. Maybe we should switch in the future).

    - Don't make it too complex with setups. First decide your strategy, high or low power (as fuel consumption), then knowing the power output you will use, setup the rear wing (it's supposed that front wing is in high possition) to balance the rear tyres heat/wear. The cars are very responsive to suspension changes. Once you know the power and wing settings you will use, setup the springs, dampers, roll bars, packers (those ones are very important) and weight distribution. Finally balance those items to get a stable car behaviour. The best lap times will come with practice and with a confortable driving more than with pure power.

    - Weight distribution. At the start of the race you will have 100 litres of fuel, that weighs 74 kilos just behind your back. All that weight will make the car understeer. So, to get a good average balance throught the race don't setup the car with a full tank or dry one, make it with 50 litres. At the end of the race, with the tank almost dry, weared tyres and 700HP, the car will have oversteer. Take tha in mind when prepare your setup.

    - For qualifying, the second lap on the tyres (Goodyear and Dunlop) is the best one, tyres are still with low pressure and tyres at not so hot, they could be good at the third lap if you do the outlap at low speed. Yokohama tyres need 1 or 2 more laps than the others.

    - Finally, do at least 3 laps to reach the operational tyre pressure before decide something about the setup. The tyres stabilize after reach the operational pressure. So, be patient and be carefull with the throtle the first two laps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  2. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    tires gets more psi (kpa) when getting hotter yes ?
    i mean from 19 psi can go to 23 which is a lot i believe
     
  3. Liquid4653

    Liquid4653 Registered

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    Hey MileSeven,

    Glad to see you here, I am putting together a scenario to pass over to s397 that will double confirm for me and also make it easy for those guys to see the issue, but I mentioned it informally at this point, I will do so officially when I can get some time to do the mock up to hand over.

    The ai are still a bit prehistoric in rF2 and they have some issues for sure, but the ai are too good right now that's for sure.
     
  4. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Registered

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    Anyone else get the slo-mo replays with this mod?
     
  5. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Registered

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    It happens at every track? I had that issue only at the new Sebring but it never happened again in other tracks.
     
  6. DaveS78

    DaveS78 Registered

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    Yeah Sebring is the only track I've tried with them so far. I'll try another one tonight and see if it does it.
     
  7. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    It happens for me at the S397 ("motocross version) Sebring, and sometimes at Road Atlanta and COTA. But that could be due to running Sebring in an earlier session.

    I'm just glad the wheels don't get knocked of at the S397 version of Sebring..... :)
     
  8. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    The Group-C cars are not the only cars that run in slow motion at Sebring. Some of the S397 GT3 cars also run in slow motion. I think the Enduracers cars also run in slow motion. Seems to affect certain tracks and car combo's, it's always the same tracks affected though, Spa-1966 and Le Mans 1967 are also affect with some cars. Sebring is the only track the Group-C cars have run in slow motion for me. Seems to be a track problem and not cars that cause the slow motion.
     
  9. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Sebring: graphically large track.
    Spa 66 graphically large track
    Le Mans 1967 Graphically large track.
    These tracks are also larger than average in lap length and tend to encourage large fields.

    the next question that should be asked is what are the videoram specs of the users who experience these slowdowns? My little ol RX 480x8 isn't the fastest, by a large margin, but it has 8MB of video ram. If I had slowdowns, they were so rare I can't think of any right now.
    I 'think' that Vidcards with 6 or more MB of video ram will rarely experience these issues. Perhaps a survey question on the topic might be in order.???
     
  10. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Agreed, its certainly not just the Group C cars. The S397 version of Sebring needs a of work. I looked at some fresh MoTec files from the Nissan at Sebring ( recorded a few days ago) and compared them with rF2 files and suspension motion acceleration rates are on the order of 10X higher in rF2 due to the errors.
     
  11. Highlandwalker

    Highlandwalker Registered

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    I have a 1080 card with 8gig of memory and 16gig of system memory so I do't think it's a memory problem. Castle Combe will also run in slow motion with some cars, so I do't think it's track size. I always run Le Mans 1017 with 55 cars and I have never had slow motion problems with any combination of cars. Others tracks are also affected but I can't remember which at the moment. My conclusion is that it's a track problem and only shows up with certain cars. If it was a car problem more tracks would be affected by that car. If it was a system problem more track and car combo's would be affected.
     
  12. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    Spent a few hours running the Group C mods on the VLM version of Sebring. It looks like the 962's have much better brakes for the AI cars. Is there a way to select those brakes for the user? :)

    The C11 is simply fabulous to drive but with the recent handicaps it seems a bit anemic against the 962 and 787. That aside, I'll continue to enjoy this fine work by MAK Corp. Thanks again guys!
     
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  13. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    This kind of message should be standard in every mod description in game
     
  14. Raintyre

    Raintyre Registered

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    For the new users, i recall some recommendations for this mod's sound.

    1- Reverb >> Since we are using closed cockpit cars i recommend this config on Users\player.JSON file ("Sound Options" section):

    ....
    "Reverb Decay":0.2,
    "Reverb Decay#":"Controls decay function (0.0=short, 1.0=long)",
    "Reverb Dry Volume":0.35,
    "Reverb Dry Volume#":"Volume increase for original sound (0.0-1.0)",
    "Reverb Max Dist":9,
    "Reverb Max Dist#":"Distance from wall at which reverb drops to zero",
    "Reverb Wet Volume":0.52,
    "Reverb Wet Volume#":"Reverb volume multiplier (0.0-1.0)",


    2- Doppler effect >> Default value for speed of sound makes exterior sounds too high in frequency when cars approach to listener, and too low when they go farther. Speed of sound depends mainly on temperature and actually air temperature around the asphalt is usually higher than average. Set:

    ...
    "Speed Of Sound":348,
    "Speed Of Sound#":"348m/s at 28ºC",


    A small table, if you want to fine tune depending on current GP temperature.
    Temp. (ºC)>>>>Speed of sound (m/s)
    40 >>>>>>>>>> 355.80
    35 >>>>>>>>>> 351.88
    30 >>>>>>>>>> 349.02
    25 >>>>>>>>>> 346.13
    20 >>>>>>>>>> 343.21
    15 >>>>>>>>>> 340.27
    10 >>>>>>>>>> 337.31
    5 >>>>>>>>>> 334.32
    0 >>>>>>>>>> 331.30
     
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  15. Raintyre

    Raintyre Registered

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    You are welcome and thanks for your words.
    Concerning balance of performance, we compared on many tracks to achieve the best balance possible. We believe they are pretty close in overall, perhaps slight differences depending on track. C11 is showing good hotlap pace at Suzuka in this new championship >>> http://game.old-drivers-spirit.fr:8000/dedi_comps/comp?cid=52

    Also (since i've read you think it lacks engine power), I should add that we don't usually modify engines for the BOP. C11 was faster in v1.0 because it had too few drag. For v1.1 we mainly added drag, especially on low downforce settings. Mercedes engine is 730-940 horse power, depending on turbo position, being the most powerful of the three.
    These three engines comply with the real specifications. It was important for us to make them as they were in real life, because we are talking of three extraordinary engines, because of their power, efficiency and reliability. They are the heart of their vehicles, and big part of their idiosincrasy and their success.
    This mod is a tribute to Group C age, and this means, in the first place, to pay tribute to their engines.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  16. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    It was my understanding the M119 series engine was introduced in 1989 a new all aluminum 300 cubic inch 4 valve with peak torque was at 3500 RPM @ 600 Ft lbs of torque and about 720 HP @ 7000 RPM. It still had still had "stump-pulling" torque down below 2000 RPM, given the likely BMEP for that engine definitely over 250 Ft Lbs before the blowers spooled up. Torque curve was said to be pretty flat from 3000-6000 RPM. I'm pretty sure they omitted the variable cam timing that was put into the M117 production cars.

    Its also my understanding the 900+ HP monster was an earlier car, (C8?) with a two valve cast iron MB engine (M117?) and oversize turbos that sucked fuel from a fire hose. That was intended for Le Mans Mulsanne straight before they added the kink where Group C cars were reaching speeds over 240 MPH.

    Its been a long time ago, but thats what I recall from discussion with Chip Ganassi who drove the C9, but had a pretty good knowledge of Sauber & Mercedes of that era.

    No matter, its still a fabulous mod, but the C11 sure does seem to be mighty anemic at the bottom end for an engine that was know for its mid range torque.
     
  17. Raintyre

    Raintyre Registered

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    Sorry for correction, mate. M117 was less powerful than M119. Sauber C9 won everything since they switched to M119, and not because torque at 2000rpm. Normal use on track should be 4000-7000.
    However it is very possible there was a very high torque at 3500rpm, which it is implemented, but you need maintain turbine rpm up to avoid turbo lag and achieve it so early.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  18. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    I have seen slomo replay one time on RTX2070 8GB. Think it was Sebring or Okayma. But only 1 time. Really weird.
     
  19. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    No worries, I'm relying on 30 year old memories of my years with IMSA. While the Saubers never raced IMSA, (5 liter turbos not allowed) John Bishop invited a number of us to set the restrictor sizing rules to allow turbo 4's and big bore V12's to be competitive. What we agreed on turned out to be amazingly close.

    It should make for a good topic next August at Monterey for the IMSA 50th & Reunion celebration.

    No matter, I still think the Group C is the all time best mod, and thank you guys for creating it.
     
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  20. knackko

    knackko Registered

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    Suzuka race results are available here: http://game.old-drivers-spirit.fr:8000/championships/championship?cid=5
    It can show somethings on a 1h30 race. 30 drivers on the grid last Monday, those 3 cars are appreciated ! miss the Jaguar for me ;)
    A good remark from some participant after this race is that the C11 is still quite fast in corners because you can add more aero without decreasing too much your max speed. At suzuka it was the case, C11 was fast in corners.
    The organization of this championship was done keeping the fact that C11 was fast but can be less efficient in corners vs mazda as said in the manual.
    After Suzuka, I'm not sure of this and I still look at it. But for le mans for example, mazda will be clearly behind and drivers keep the same car for all the season, it is a tricky situation for me.
    For the next round at Monza, there will be some rain.
     
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