I spent an hour hot-lapping Spa with the C11 yesterday and yes, i agree to a centain extent that with the default set up, the front end is a little tricky to turn in. However, I disagree that this means that something is wrong with the geometry and therefore should be changed; it should be treated as a vehicle characteristic and not a defect. This characteristic is mentioned in the manual - it is no accident. What is clear to me is that, for what the C11 lacks in front end grip on corner entry, it makes up for on exit. So ok, you find yourself in the C11 on a track with one too many off-camber corners and it is slowing you down, so this is what you need to do: Tune the car to the track and to your tastes. You don't need to go nuts and 'remove all of rear downforce, stiffen up rear end as much as possible, and soften front as much as possible' Firstly, 'more caster feels better, but you have to reduce FFB mult for it'.... so do it, reduce the multiplier, it's not a crime - that's what it's for. More caster increases the 'real' lateral force on the steering shaft; your ffb wheel is limited in it's power, so you must reduce the multiplier. After this, on the front end, I would reduce the camber, dampers, spring-rate and tyre pressure. Raise at the front the ride height, downforce and roll bar. Again, all of these changes should be quite subtle (10-20%) - the combined effect is possibly huge. The point is that you can tune out minor problems rather than expect the dev to rethink the physics. Also try out the 787B and the 962C - they are also sensational.
It is probably true, I shouldn't have judged something by trying for first time. But the first time was driving online, not the car. I have driven the car quite a bit before, I also have drive C9 a lot in Assetto Corsa, I think C9 is one of the best AC cars. I just spent respectable time in single player, and I want to ask, is it possible that rF2 physics are better in singleplayer than online ? I had no issues with steering in singleplayer. Online it felt much worse. Understeer through curve which is called "anti-banked" was not as severe and unbelievable, steering overall was more responsive, FFB felt more detailed, better resolution. After trying default settings, I also tried other stuff, I found FFB type #3 best for me, 2x softer front arb and more front downforce bias also did good. And it was actually very enjoyable, unlike I experienced online. My pace was the same though, I don't remember how well I did online, I think in practice it was ~1'50 for me, so it was in single player. In online race I ran lower boost and finished second. Perhaps I had lower tire wear because I didn't use max boost. Also lets consider that looking after a tire is also a skill I hope to have more online races with you. I still keep my opinion about grip, though car felt better in single player. I think grip is weird in some occasions. I really enjoyed wet and intermediate tires, I thought they were awesome, though imo they are not twitchy enough, I had an idea that wet tire is as twitchy as I'd expect dry tire to be. So yeah thats my opinion about grip. I always race with AI at 105, usually beat them. With C11 AI did 1'40 at Matsusaka, 10s faster than me, and I also think I shouldn't be able to do 1'50 so easily. By the way, rain is awesome at night, because then reflections does not mess things up in the windshield. Conclusion: mod is a keeper, but online was something bad, I don't know id that is at my end or what... singleplayer was much better.
Spent some time running all 3 at Daytona as that's the track I spent the most time with on setups with the previously release. Tuning starts in the Showroom with aero settings for me. Mostly subtle changes from my previous setups although the aero changes made a larger difference on the 787 for me. On the C11 turn-in grip wasn't a problem so much as premature locking of the fronts. Looking back at the MoTec data from the previous confirmed my impression. Also seems like part of the power band was shifted downward in RPM, but I didn't compare the exceptional documentation MAK released with both versions. While I'm not the fastest driver in simland, once tires are up to temp my lap times are pretty consistent generally +/- .015 seconds across the next 5-8 laps. I keep all 4 wheels on the pavement including the Bus Stop. Previously the C11 lap times were in the 1:32's, 962 was in the 1:33's and the 787 in the 1:34's. Now they all seem to even out at 1:33 for me. That's a good thing in for simland otherwise folks would all be choosing the same cars depending on the track. Of course thats only one track and I haven't run extended time to check reliability or wear rates. The other thing I noticed in the showroom and on track is the 787 & 962 is the cars look better on my 4K monitor.
Usually they are very fast at 100%. It's a very track dependant value. I use them at 100% at Sao Paulo, 85% at the new Sebring and at Paul Ricard. Most of the other tracks work well between 92 and 95%. Always with aggresion at 5%
Apparently I might have something going on in multiplayer for me, and somebody has expressed similar concerns in the past: https://forum.studio-397.com/index....car-with-poor-online-times.53514/#post-864595 Will we have some more online servers with this mod soon ? Perhaps even some rainy clouds could be plugged in ?
Good to hear about the .ini About the servers, there are two championships just starting, one from ODS (Old Drivers Spirit) and the other one by SR4L (Sim Racing 4 Life). Racedepartment is hosting club events too, but you have to be premium member to be able to join.
Real Group C cars 'suffered' from understeer on corner entry, like most of classic high powered vehicles, but it is just one of the ways to compensate oversteer tendency when applying throttle. When you've got 700-900HP it is a priority to use them as soon as possible or you will lose time on the next straight. If your car were already oversteering at the apex, your rear tyres would not cope with the extra work of pushing forward the vehicle. Furthermore, you also need that your rear tyres don't burn too soon after violent tractions, so understeer on corner entry is a way to keep them colder and newer for more time. Understeer was normal on low speed corners, and also on fast corners due to low aerodynamic balance (balance under 50% figure means 'more to the front'). Here you will find some aero balance figures for Group C cars: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html Article here (page 3): http://www.mulsannescorner.com/AllardJ2XRCE.pdf However, some tracks were especially hard for front tyres. Let's read what they said about Suzuka in 1991: "...they looked likely to fly off the track at any moment, and none of the settings that worked at Montreal, Monza or Richard seemed to be any good at Suzuka. The cars were harsh-sprung, lacked traction and understeered. "There are many opinions here about how to make the cars good," said Baldi, who is ever the diplomat these days." Source: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/may-1991/18/wsc-suzuka For tracks like Suzuka probably you can try with more front downforce, less rear wing, and also try more weight to the rear. Also take in account that server may run different 'real road' rubber than conditions you are running offline. A green track is much slower than a full rubbered track. >>>>>Will we have some more online servers with this mod soon ? There are some of them: https://www.racingfr.net/wbb/index....stone-mardi-5-mars-2019-20-30-23-55/&pageNo=1 http://simracers4life.liveracers.com/Live?server=! SR4L Group C (V1.1) https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/mak-corp-91-group-c-salzburgring-thu-14-feb-2019.164546/ Also some servers by prf.fr, IsR and other, you can search for them on rf2 launcher...
those different car bahaviors drove me nuts really interesting cars and so far at suzuka not really big understeer on default setup i notice
Thanks for involvement and all those articles, @Raintyre I wanted to make one more raport. I entered same server today, only difference was that now it was just me in it. And physics/ffb felt great, I certainly had more control over the car, was more confident, precise and was faster. With default setup I already did 1'48'8, changing some things I did 1'46'8. It got difficult from there, but if I could manage to do good lap, I could probably reach flat 1'45 laptime. I don't think I was faster than 1'50 yesterday. Also I definitely got use of the front tires today, yesterday outside of my fronts stayed cold iiric, I remember I even tried reducing camber and it didn't help, today didn't need to touch wheels. I still think tires are not load sensitive enough. Not sure about lateral, but longitudinal mostly. I'm not one of those simracers who complain about existance of understeer, I understand that it is part of vehicle dynamics, and I know how to deal with it. But yesterday it was imposibly bad. Today it was believable. I also like my car to have forward mechanical grip balance, and rearwards aerodynamic balance, however, for matsusaka feels like both goes forward. Understeer still is there, but it is believable and logical. I push grip forward, until I can't handle the car. Slow turns benefits of slightly too much yaw moment, because helps to rotate, and with little steering corrections and throttle modulation exits aren't that slow, but if you are still understeering even on the exit it is annoying. Oversteer in highspeed corners are a bit too much, so it is better to have slight understeer there. I guess that for me amount of server clients could possibly have a hit on physics performance. Looking forward to find ODS Matsusaka server populated again. I also tried 787B for a few laps, and I think it is awesome too.
(A Bit Out Of Topic) i remember i had brake pedal gain at assetto corsa @1.90 !!!!, when i set it back to 1.0 which is the default, part of the understeer dissapear and game went back to normal when i use brake cause if signal distorts there is a chance to make braking unatural or unresponce and breaking can cause understeer just saying
Thanks Mak Corp for a great mod, the cars look and sound awesome and are a brutal drive that's for sure. But I agree with @mesfigas they are almost impossible to race against offline. The AI have seemingly unmatchable levels of grip and acceleration out of corners, and are 20+kmh faster than the player on the straight, regardless of how low I set the difficulty. It'd be nice if the AI could be adjusted so they fit better with the S397 "ecosystem". I can have a great race with most S397 content at AI difficulty 98, but get my arse handed to me by Group C cars at difficulty 80 on every track.
As a refference point I am normally +-1s pace of AI at 105. At Matsusaka with C11 I am more than 5s slower than them. Definitely a thing to look at if there will be a future update. Also that inside windscreen reflectivity iissue when wet. I know that in this s397 build there is this strange issue, but in other cars it does only reflect annoying on wet parts of the screen, but in this mod it reflects through whole screen. At night it is fine though
Somebody telling the truth. The AI is definitely to fast for us old slow drivers, would be nice if this was looked at. I have reverted back to version .96 so I can have a decent race with the AI.
i v done a test Matsusaka AI 103% Norma i m 2.5-3.5 seconds slower than AI Oreca i m 2.5-3.5 seconds slower than AI GTE Porsche i m 2.5-3.5 seconds slower than AI GT Callaway i m 2.5-3.5 seconds slower than AI Group C v1.1 any car i m 11 seconds slower than AI all cars used default setup and fuel for 10 laps
C11 buoi here Just tested C11 at Matsusaka during very rainy eveining/night. Taking reference laptime by Brundle with Jag in the wet in 1991 which was 2'03'5 and was said to be outstanding. Considering that Mercedes was few seconds slower, and that track wasn't extremely wet like in my rF2 test, I'd say it is realisitc pace Assuming that 1991 Suzuka was about 4s slower than rF2 Matsusaka, and taking in account that viscous hydroplaning, nor dynamic hydroplaning is simulated and you can take normal racing line which saves about 4 seconds too, so in total rF2 would be expected to be minimum 8seconds faster. I was doing +-1s 2'07 in flooded track, it stopped raining for a few laps and laptime immediately dropped down to 2'00 flat. AI did 1'53. It started rainign again and within few laps laptimes started climbing up again. At the end I managed to get quite a bit bellow 2'07 by sliding tires heavily on purpose to heat them up, and learning how fun it is to twist steering into a slide on my own will rather than waiting ffb signal first, I really liked that and had kinda Kenny Brack Goodwood GT40 vibe, when you see a guy really working with steering. Considering that in slighlty dried out track my laptime was 2'00, I guess it would be correct to assume that it would be about 2'08 with Suzuka 1991 track and totally authentic rain physics. 2'08 would be something about right for me I guess. Speaking of how this mod handles in the wet, I think it is fantastic, definitely one of the best utilization of rF2 wet physics out there. Cars are twitchy, but they don't snap off totally uncontrolable even you you handle them with great care, feels just right. I think they take power way to easily out of very slow corners, considering at that time they have next to none downforce because of slow speed, and track is wet, I would expect to be nursing car even with half of throttle during strongest acceleration. Could it be that turbo lag is so masive ? i feel like turbo lag is not very mean on that car. Obviously if cars would be harder to accelerate, they would become slower. While for dry track I would suppose it would be ok to be few seconds slower, wet seems about right now. So I wonder if wet couldn't be compensated with better tire temps. @Raintyre I noticed that it is super difficult to heat up rain tires. Is it known thing that they were like that ? I would expect rain tire not to be very hard to maintain good temps durning ~20C day with rain. I have made an impression, that while they seem to heat up well, they seem not to store the heat generated, and transfering it back super quickly. I also suppose that I may not understand rF2 tire application very well. I suppose it could be showing only surface temperature, and cure temps could be good ?
