“ are rfactor2 physics broken” video

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTClub_wajdi, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I totally get you and the frustration some users also feel and how that actually slips through, as until you pointed that out I wasn't even aware of that but it is a really nice point.
     
  2. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, I see that, but shouldn't it actually be worse at least to a point? Where temperatures should desintegrate tyre rubber and make it less controllable? Just brain storming. I was watching the LMP3 in real life and I saw some nice catches of slides, but not sure until wich point can the rubbered in track be enough to warrant much easier control, opposed to lower grip/rubber practice start session. Just thought it would be nice to show my skills at drifting too :D:D
     
  3. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Tire make noise even when not sliding. Noise is a mechanical vibration, tire deformation can make noise, just like it make heat. Don'y your tires make noise when you drive over an industrial pavement into a car shop or in other places that have resin floor? You are not sliding at all, but tire screams because of high grip and deforming contact patch.
     
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  4. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Actually I spinned at the end, because tyres overheated too much, but probably some of the hacking possibilities is down to how much more the temperature aggravates the sliding imprevisability.
     
  5. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Didn’t watch the whole video, but Norma is supposed to be one of most realistic cars in rF2(handling was tuned with a driver who raced it IRL). On the other hand on iRacing forums a racing driver who had some experience in various cars said iRacing and rF2 are on the opposite end of spectrum with regards to how much slip angle and sliding is allowed before grip falls off and car spins. He’s opinion was the are both equally bad (but in opposite way) and he preferred ACC in this regard.
     
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  6. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, maybe it's just the video doesn't really let the tyre sounds come out, but not only that, I still stand by my statement, as I do drive a car and at some times I put the tyres to a limit and they at least aren't so noticeable, so maybe what I am refering to is that they are too pronnounced, but it's just an observation.
     
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  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I also am of the same opinion when the context is sliding behavior, altough I only had one month of IRacing, as that vanilla FFB putted me of more than anything...
     
  8. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    But you put racing tires to the limit? If not then I’m not sure you can compare to road tires behavior. But anyway I have no idea if tires sliding sound is too pronounced in rF2
     
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  9. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    That's a good consideration of course, but I don't think saying that things vibrate and create sound is enough, at least to determine if they should have this or that volume. Anyway, I was just thinking about that because I never noticed it on any onboard where car is being pushed, but it's probably just the nature of how the sound is being captured.
     
  10. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Oh, and I am sure road cars on Rfactor 2 are even equally pronnounced, so theres at least something to think about. In the end I don't care about sound enough and it can actually be a dev decision to actually help staying under the limits, as I've seen that happen before.
     
  11. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I would take the feedback of real racing drivers allways with a grain of salt, no matter if it is a sim or a real car. I've recently watched an interview with Adrien Newey talking about placebo effects and how they affect drivers, their perception of car handling and performance, even the best of them. The best way to solve such issues is using telemetry and building databases and reverse engineer potential issues from the given data.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Mother of god. I was just strolling through the Dev tools on the site and opened the excell file. I just gained an insane ammount of respect after taking a look at what is available and how overwhelmed I felt by that. I wished more people took a look at that.
     
  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    As one who called for better proof, though I realise you may not be including me there, I'd like to explain at least part of the reasoning (general scientific approach aside).

    A thread based on a video questioning "rF2 physics" and with people talking generally of rF2 vehicle behaviour demands some better focus. At one point I took some educated guesses on a particular troublesome aero parameter, and the question coming back was "So it's something wrong with rF2s aero modeling?" (paraphrased)

    Trying to identify particular car issues (let's not forget the majority of the GT cars are probably on the same base, and I think done by the same person, along with possibly other DLC cars, so we're actually painting with a wide brush here) vs underlying engine issues is actually very important, in terms of what we can reasonably ask S397 to look at, but also in terms of attracting or turning away potential users.

    This has nothing to do with dismissing or denying the issue, but trying to keep things in perspective.

    As far as burden of proof, if S397 turned around tomorrow and said "We've reviewed the cars against our manufacturer performance data, and we've identified no issues" then simply saying "But it doesn't look right" or "But look at this video of a fast lap with lots of sliding" doesn't advance the case.
     
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  14. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    The problem is, not many people do it and people who label it as "overated" or bring up statements like "are sim XYZ physics broken" basicly have no idea of the complexity, knowldege and research that goes into building such a system like rF2, let alone any other consumer sim on the market.
     
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  15. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    I have no idea how these cars are supposed to handle but at least it looks very believable to me.

    With that said I could say the same thing for rFactor 2 in general. I'm not convinced the physics are too forgiving - I rather think the physics on and over the limit are excellent. An unqualified opinion, of course, but still... I also requested a refund after trying iRacing (which they graciously accepted), the physics over the limit being a major factor for my dislike (another reason was pulling the handbrake at 20km/h launches the rear for a full 180 degree turn in the rallycross car).
     
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  16. TheGame316

    TheGame316 Registered

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    Fully agree. Ive spent the last 4 odd years pouring over the physics and tyre, and barely feel like I have touched the surface of understanding it all.
    The total simulation argument is open ended and opinionated. That is why there are different games in the same genre. The way ISI/S397 see things is slightly different to Renato, Ian, Dave and the others that have delved into physical simulation.
     
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  17. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, the problem is that it should really be like that, and I think there's not that big of a difference, is just that some will actually be able to come to the goal closer than others at certain aspects, probably because some parts of the physics engine deals with things better than others and devs will be limited at certain areas to provide us the full realization of what they know to be real, but sometimes is not that easy as one just can't scrap it over night.
     
  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, I don't know, I guess we are so used to see this cars being driven in a pointed way, that when one starts to play around and drift it, it may actually be possible. I still think some points of losing grip should be more unforgiving, but I don't know, after all is not that easy of a subject and it's not like we have people trying to drift them, as there is no way it would be feasable when one thinks the context of this cars is endurance racing. Saying that, I think tyres life are a bit too long, I always have sensed that, but since I normally restrain myself to short races with AI I don't know for sure. Once I when for a tyre burning stint and it seemed the more they went down the quicker they also deteriorated. It makes sense if blistering is something simulated, even if rudimentarelly
     
  19. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Also, I've seen one time a comment about how studio 397 doesn't know I to make cars. I honestly think the cars that have come out are sublime.
     
  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Sliding sounds are bit different than just rolling sound. There always is slight sliding portion of the tire whenever it is not standing still. And this sliding contact portion simply grows the more tires are pushed. Tire can be sliding quite a bit, but still have enough of static contact, doesn't have to be sliding totally.
     
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