“ are rfactor2 physics broken” video

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTClub_wajdi, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Bruno Gil

    Bruno Gil Registered

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    Stop distorting things.
    Maybe I am Biased but, Me, and many others, have gone to the trouble of doing PROPER testing, which u keep devaluing with kindergarten arguments, because the results don't match what you expect. And you keep refusing to conduct tests in a proper way, which I now am SURE it's because, deep down, you know what you're gonna find. I know you (probably) had good intentions at the start, but if you can't work with people who have view opposing to yours, once again, REFRAIN from posting for the sake of posting.

    I also find it funny the skill you have to, within a VERY long post, with lots of arguments, find the most easily refutable (and least valuable) one, and Ignore everything else
     
  2. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I think this thread has run its course....and a few pages ago at that!
     
  3. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    Haven't seen any "proper" test from you opposing guys....but okay if you say so.
     
  4. Bruno Gil

    Bruno Gil Registered

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  5. Slip_Angel

    Slip_Angel Registered

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    Your bunch of text V.S. all the alien videos (and videos on setup if you can search it) in the existence....yea right proper test that.

    My argument is backed by all your alien setups and driving, it is you guys that need to prove.
     
  6. Bruno Gil

    Bruno Gil Registered

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    Please do link to those videos and setups, Im more than happy to analyse them and tell you my point of view. Of course that wont matter because you will just pretend it doesn't exist

    Also, what more proof you want from the post I linked? Motec data? I can get you that
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    What about actually making a video?
     
  8. Bruno Gil

    Bruno Gil Registered

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    How would I go about making a video on such a long testing procedure? A full unedited video or is there some parts you think I should focus on?
    I mentioned motec because you can clearly see the differ ces in time, and the setup used in each run. But I can do a video if it's not too troublesome (and too long, since my Internet is slow)

    Or I just thought I could do a stream. If I can get it to work
     
  9. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    It's funny how every time a threads starts going deep into physics, all the few people discussing it think they are right and try to convince the others that they are, which ends up being a hundred posts which is simply "I am right, you are wrong" and then "no I am not wrong, I am right and you're wrong" which just is an endless circle. Then people wonder why on discord physics discussions are not very common ;)
     
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  10. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    This thread is "gone peanut".

    If only everyone could just come to the obvious conclusion that in a simulation that is meant to be realistic, the most important thing, while there are other important things of course, is the realism of the physics engine and the cars physics.

    It seems more than obvious to me.

    To hope that improving the physical engine is one of the TOP priorities also seems obvious to me.

    BUT IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A FUCK OF CONSENSUS after hundreds of messages.

    I find that quite pathetic.
    In short, this thread will lead to nothing.
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @pilAUTO I think most people agree physics is most important, that's why we've been playing rF2 through the years despite its many shortcomings. I suspect most of us would also like any physics discrepancies to be fixed, too.

    That's not really what the thread is about, though the video it's based on is a really poor starting point anyway. I agree though, this 'discussion' isn't going anywhere, because it's based almost purely on opinion.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I just come up with that because Slip Angel is right about pointing out that you just provided no palpable evidence at all, just your words, when you've tried to run the test on the ARBs setup. Maybe you can just make a video of each run, going like, three setups above a detached ARB that is supposadely an hack setup and go from there. Take a short track, in the interest of time, I guess.

    I am sure there are holes being exploited, how far from reality they can really go is another question, but if we would really try to pick it apart to the limit point of reality of course we would find those holes. Saying that, if we don't have to go that deep and find those holes, I am sure they should be fix. I wish I could be the one coming here and having total certainty of what's correct or not, but I am not, I am just an enthusiast and aspiring Mechanical Engeneering who's probably to stupid to even finish the course, but certain behaviors I believe can be tweaked to achieve more realism.
    Although, if I were to get to picky I wouldn't be playing any of the sims on the market.

    I hope physics are continuously refined, even if it means a new Rfactor, breaking through some revolutionary simulation aspects as Rfactor 2 packed with. But, I am certain right now Rfactor 2 is probably the best option out of any other, even if not at all ranges of simulation, out there and FFB certainly helps with that. FFB can be more important than physics, provided that the physics aren't that far apart according to realism.
     
  13. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I came up with a thought that sometimes being to clinging to being scientific it can hinder us, because we will doubt some of the perceptions our senses sometimes tell us that are actually right. Such situation can happen here, where people with more rudimentary knowledge on physics can have pinpoint what is a real flaw, while the more sceptic ones will want to test everything and with they better knowledge wich may induce them in believing certain behaviors can be explained by some other physical behavior (ARBs, low pressure..). Not only should we try to unite both point of views of each person, it's probably good to unite both point of views that exist within ourselves. How many times I've seen some physics experts of some sim on the market being totally arrogant about their simulation when other people that are viewed as bellow to them are made fun of when it actually they are right? I've seen that, and Assetto Corsa is the game I am talking about here, understeer simulation some call it.

    So yeah, if the physics issues talked about in this thread are real I wished it would be fixed from night an day, but since it can't happen, I only hope devs at least look into it, as maybe they will see the issues, they just actually have not being paying enough attention, just as so many times we are happy with what we already have.
     
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  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I agree there is something fishy with the sliding behavior, although I actually like the approach of some of the guys. I know neither you or me can really test this in a scientific way, but it's good to take both perspectives and unite what we sense as wrong and then go do the work of applying the scientific method, as that is just what has to happen.

    I think some people here aren't really against anything being wrong, they just also don't want that to be the end all be all and are against some people that are too assured of their opinions.
     
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  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    The video might actually be flawed and missing repeatability, but don't forget that the point wasn't totally to show that off for certain. I think Ermin relied more on what is already being seen on alien drivers and decided to test it himself. Also, don't look only at laptimes, it's the way the laptime was achieved, where Ermin is pushing those tyres and car rotation to the limit.
     
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  16. Bruno Gil

    Bruno Gil Registered

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    I took the chance to test this today again when practicing Silverstone for next gte races. I streamed it on twitch, but was not aware that you had to change settings for the vod to be saved... it's gone. I do have the replay and telemetry data, which I will post here later tonight.
    Long story short, same conclusion.

    I know some of you that didn't read my earlier posts probably think I think this game has no physics issues.No, that's not the case. It's just some people keep saying they're SURE that x or Y is wrong, when they cannot even be bothered to try and get proof of it. If enough people jump in on the bandwagon, soon we will have them overpower all reason, and the devs will be forced to make changes, even if they're not correct. Then in turns there's a big chance those changes are gonna either simplify or completely break the physics. I've seen more than one sim be completely ruined by this... I just don't want to to happen to rf2.
    So yeah, if there are issues, and there are some, I want to find them and actually get to their origin. BUT for this,that is gonna require collaboration with the community, instead of ridiculing other peoples opinions
     
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  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    few hundred laps?? Maybe few thousand? It’s ridiculous.
    During testing often you need to show it once to prove there is a bug, or something not right. Hypothetically if in a a sim car spins in a turn in good dry conditions , but it never does IRL with same speed, steering angle, dry conditions etc. , then there is an issue. Or simpler example: if with certain setup , or “hack” car has significantly different speed on straights, but with default setup it was pretty close, then we have an issue(also considering that at the start of a straight speed was the same or it was standing start). But In general of course it’s better to repeat a test it few times to eliminate potential glitch etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I do have the same fear as you, I've also seen that happen and sometimes it's actually a question of us not accepting that it was actually for the better. It's a bit like changing between sims, it will feel wrong even when is going for the one supposedly more realistic. I don't think the devs will actually cave in to just some pressure, even because right now there isn't enough of a strong voice, I think. I do believe there are improvements to be done to the forgiveness of the tyre on certain instances, whatever the cause of that is, but I have a certain feeling is related to the tyres more than anything.

    Actually with more understanding I've come to not be so picky to be honest. When I think that I've actually been born and started enjoying sim racing where it is right now (physics being more advanced than before mostly) I think we should not get too disappointed when we see some less desired results. That said, we can have the sentiment of being satisfied and still wanting better things, they are not mutually exclusive.

    I do hope to see not only RFactor 2 getting more and more advanced and precise on it's physics, implementing new ways of simulating more deeply and completly.
     
  19. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

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    took you long enough to figure out :D
     
  20. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    I'm twisting his words ? It is almost the same sentence...Now you're literally playing with words imho.

    And "exploits" if they exist should be highlighted with EVIDENCE, not opinions or views.

    What competition exactly? The competitive mode has existed for less than a month...and is still only a beta. Anything private league is irrelevant since the content is not necessarily official content.
     

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