Am I the only one thinking payware could be rFactor2's death knell?

Have you read this? http://www.bsimracing.com/drm-mod-v3-0-no-release-for-rfactor-and-rfactor-2/#20240183

 

You probably couldn't list on both hands the amount of announced free mods which never materalised, or which dribble out screenshots for months and years on end, but no content. Producing high quality content takes a lot of time, and if its done right and done well, I would - and have - gladly paid for it.

The above link about DRM seems kind of childish. Payware mods now exist so you wont release your free mod? Yeah, makes sense

 

this is what i wrote:
1000% respect for DRM, but personally i think put the paymods as reason for no release or produce mods is not valid because when you do something you like, even if it demands time, efforts, money, angry wife, you do because it is a personal achieve, because it give you pleasure and you dont see at side if the other sells or not the mod, you do it because it feels good.

 

I thought the same really, just how well would a payware mod do in rf 1 now? with all the other free, high quality mods available, not to well i think, because most people would just down load the free mods.

 

I've read it yet and i'm not sure what is the original intention for that behaviour but it sounds somewhat sensless and seems to be a excuse while mentioning another platform which likely will meet there likes more. If i should speculate, they are waiting for AC and it is just letting people understand they don't like rf2 and it's way of modding is what the childish behaviour tells me.

 

I would view it as a paradigm shift for RF2. It's a much more complex piece of software, so what was a great mod for RF1 would end up as a mediocre/average mod in RF2. If you have the skills and talent to produce what RF2 is capable of, spend the extra time and sell it for €5~.

 

The argument for/against payware will always continue, there is not a right or wrong side. It's been debated and argued since modding has been alive on any game not just restricted to racing. In some cases (Look at the flight sim market for example payware mods have actually kept the product going longer).

If people want to build mods and release for free great, they are dedicating their time and effort to something they love. I know i'd love to build some tracks and maybe once my skills and time allows that will be possible. However if someone wants to put out a payware mod and spend what you could call more than "hobby time" in to really produce a quality mod and charge a few quid then fine why not. Any payware mod's i've bought have been imo paying for the devs time not the actual content. 1 hours wages for something someone has spent 100hours building.

At the end of the day people will look at it from what ever view they want which is why there will never be "the solution". As long as the modders who do build payware support that product and keep it working for as long as possible i will be happy.

It a perfect world everything would be free, everything would be of top quality but in reality that does not happen.

 

@sg333

Yes and i can't thank each modder and people enough doing this for all the years keeping the niche and sims alive while i was passing modding years ago. Without this guys we might be won't here and rf wasn't what it is today, as all the other sims as well. So i'm fine with keeping modder alive while paying for my intrest.

 

Modding community always has been a bit of a snakepit and I wont be surprised if trolling and bitching by users has increased over the years, this is the internet after all and people simply shut down their social-filters and go mental for no reason. and its getting worse by the year.

Add to that the increased complexity of rf2 modding, you need more, work harder and longer, becomes more frustrating in itself and all the negativity just comes in much harder then before.....not surprised they put this one in the freezer.

My hope is (and maybe their hope as well so perhaps a good move on their part) this will have some sort of effect. If encrypting is what they need....can't ISI provide such a thing?

 

Not sure if the complexity and useability isn't really the intention of ISI. May they won't keep it easy to ensure a level of mod QA and people doing it, so not everybody is able to do. This should help to get the crap out of it and clean up the mess of mod offers available out there. Otherwise the whole software could miss something, as example, me is a pro in real vehicle technics but don't get into rf2 or modding yet because it is somewhat to complex and shows just signs and numbers which are linked to something i again don't know. May it was possible to feel one of the best vehicle dynamics when it wasn't like it is. The sad of the whole thing is, real vehicle pro's are no coder, so people will see and experience rarelly something from a real life pro. It's why i'm thankfull to get anything with high QA i'm intrested in by modder.

 

I doubt ISI purposely made it more difficult. On many occasions they defended and encouraged all levels of modding. and that makes sense as well, the crap modder of today might bring awesome stuff tomorrow, you don't become good by just wanting to be good

Pretty sure even Gjon started his carreer with 'whats a pixel?'

I'm not a modder but I can guesstimate the level of frustration that is going through the modding community. skills that where once accurate now no longer apply and need intensive updating.
Combine that with the userbase whom is used to great content for free raining down on them...and not understanding why this is not happing now, demanding more....rf1 spoilt us!

So going cynical for a minute, I wont be surprised ripping stuff is now even more a goal then before, simply because loads of peeps wont have the skills to do it themselves. The value of good content increases when the stakes have gone up.
Not surprised payware then becomes an item as well. If an excellent mod has to be paid for its perhaps for the same reasons DRM stopped all together?
With the increased imput to create a mod the risks and anxiety go up as well. at one point you realize things might have changed and you need to re-evaluate the whole thing and see if its even worth?

 

In all simulations today, very notable in flight sims, Payware modding (or paid DLC by original developer) has become the only way that people can spend the massive amount of work needed to get the increasingly complex details in place.

I bought RF2 chiefly for the ISI included historic cars and tracks a year ago, but with a definite hope to retire my old GT Car simulation down the road. Now up until now, nothing that really fits has materialized for free. Along comes URD and does an excellent GTE mod, which will eventually include six cars that can match and race each other. Very unlike the other content we currently have, were we are racing same cars same specs all the time (which to me sometimes makes it really hard to keep immersion).

So yes, if it needs payware to get the necessary content in game, then that's the way forward. The "free modders" had quite a shot at it already, and with a few notable exceptions the car results are not so thrilling. Tracks on the other hand still seem to be easier as there is more quality and more amount of projects... even there I didn't mind donating for the Nordschleife.

 

@Denstjiro

Agree everybody starts anywhere. After all modelling work some noop user interface was not bad, just put in the values and drive. As for the rest i really don't know.

 

Somehow I understand DRM decisions, there are some issues for sure. I guess they have realized that times have changed when it has become accepted and somewhat popular to release payware mods. For example group like URD is doing great job in this area. What it means that DRM for example should move on to payware, but depeding on situation it can be quite a huge leap. For example you have to aquire software and manufacturer licenses to make sure everything is legal. And when money is involved, you gotta be sure. It might not be so funny when you think about it. The other option is to release freeware as usual, and keep counting all the possible money lost. Mod like DRM could easily be very top notch payware stuff, that everybody wants.

For rF1 it was pretty easy to make mods and releases compared to rF2. It is not hobby anymore, it is way too complicated and time consuming and there might be better options (another games) for modding as hobby. This is something I personally struggle with when my background is in rF1. This is why I applaud URD as they got this to work for them. With that level of quality, or higher, that is pretty much the only way to go. It is just too difficult with rF2 to it be any fun really. Might be reason also why Niels for example sticks with older gMotor. Btw, Reiza is moving on from gMotor so I don't know what challenges that brings to Niels.

Money in, fun out.

 

Huh? You can't even get 2 pints of beer with 10 Euros.

 

Personally I think modding comes from the desire to see something you'd like to see in a game that isn't available. Unfortunately the standards of quality vary a lot from person to person, as gmotor2-based games proved greatly with some extremely poor mods (conversions or scratch) and some fabulous content like Cartfactor, DRM, F1 1979 (was top notch when it came out), and tracks like 3 of Virtua LM's tracks. Reading that article on the DRM 3.0 being cancelled because of payware was saddening but you have to understand their point of view, which I agree.

I clearly recall so much content for Grand Prix 4 being downloaded by some people and sold as their own material, and a lot of original content made for it converted (poorly and often without tweaks) to F1C and rFactor. 10 Euros may not be seen as much but that is a hefty price tag, and some are glad to pay of course, but comparing some of the content available to content available to flight sims as justification of price is a whole different world. The amount of work into those planes is beyond absurd, it needs more complex functions and physical parameters to add to the simulation than we have. I think someone made a similar argument before, it'd be great to find it as they went into more detail. For that much money I'd expect a few cars handling like real life, not compromised settings, all of the liveries possible, and some tracks that make up a championship. And then there's the point of charging for content that is 1:1 of real life. It could activate legal issues if the real brand takes notice, costing a lot more than what could be made from paid mods as profit was made over unlicensed material. And the licensing could cost dozens of thousands of dollars, which nobody would pay for. In the end free modding is free but it'd not fall into a court battle causing loss of piles of money.

10 Euros where I live ($13.50) allows me to buy food at the market to prepare at home that'll last about 5 days.

 

I think payware mods are great for one reason. People will expect a higher quality than free mods, and the creator will have to give that quality, or they won't make any money. There will still be free mods as there always are. I am willing to pay for a mod if it's worth it.

 

I think this is the point where paymods will destroy themselves. Maybe now, when there are only one or two paymods, everything will be ok. But imagine somebody releases a high qualitiy super duber mod and a huge part is satisfied with this. So it will get even more difficult for the next modders to be better than this and claim of community will also be higher. So the quality must be better and better in upcoming mods otherwise nobody will pay...and in the end they release it for free, because nobody is willing to pay. I hope the modding community heals itself in this way ;-)

 

Hi


is this forgetting modding base. we are walking into a trading system that will give us more trouble than money.
As always it is converting an "underground subculture" into a mass business. It is trying to transform the spirit of sim racing in a trading strategy without solid foundation.

really to base a business in lower quality mods with poor physical and modeled stolen or downloaded from the internet as 3ds models etc ...I do not think that works for a long time deception. a question
Do modders pay for using the ISI engine?.

Cheers

 

I see the end of modding coming by the developer himself. People teach that payware DLC and such are working and makes it possible to gain further money with the old engine. Imagine how much money ISI could have generated by rf1 with content. People will pay for a QA content from developer himself and in the case of ISI, even unlicensed content would be paid. See some of the new concepts, no official modding supported and content just from developer himself. From the point of Business ISI is doing wrong, instead to form a junior team creating content and selling while the core engine pro's working further on fundamental things.