High-End Wheel Owners (CSW V2 and Above) Please Chime In - Experiences, Info, Reviews

Totally agreed, the OSW has a value to performance light years ahead of anything else

Like the senso drive, bodnar, EK (EK ? ) -it's a high grade true complete servo system, super precise
Nothing else can touch these beasts, I laugh at suggested comparrisons

A no brainer is totally the correct term here

 

I think people who make those simply have not had the privilege ever, to drive one of these systems. People
can explain all day long, but trying one for yourself, beats all

On another note, I'd really like a pre-built set as well, I vouched never to do an expensive DIY build again...
If only the funds were available

 

The CSW V2 is a big improvement over the V1 but one should factor reliability and QA/QC into the purchasing decision. My CSW V2 base has a slight clicking sound sometimes when turning and a cooling fan that squeals. I'm too busy to deal with the warranty repair process but I will have to. So while they seem to have addressed the motor issues, it's not perfect.

I suppose the Accuforce hasn't been out long enough to assess its reliability.

 

I have a CSW V2 invite code but if I can truly get a MiGe OSW (absolutely everything required with all good/reliable parts) for 800-ish Euros then I'll go that way. However, the construction is daunting to me. I have no idea about amps, volts, and especially circuitry, wires, etc. etc. so I would need to find someone to do it for me. Also, paying $2000 for a ready-built unit, when you can apparently get one for $1000-ish unbuilt, just seems way too much. Therefore I'm still considering the Fanatec CSW V2. That leads me to my next question...

Can anyone provide the weights for the following wheels?

- Fanatec Formula Wheel ($180)
- Fanatec Formula Wheel Carbon ($250)
- Fanatec Porsche 918 Spyder Wheel ($400)


Due to the relatively limited power of the CSW V2, I would like to get the lightest setup I can and am not sure if those wheels are lighter or if the Fanatec Hub + Rim combos are lighter.

Fanatec thankfully lists the weight (grams) for their Hub, it's individual components, and their individual rims, but they don't list the weights for the other wheels (the more expensive ones which don't require the hub).

 

I think you are taking the costs for these types of systems too lightly, 2k is still a steal for the power you get.

To be honest I would be very much surprised when you can get a complete MiGe OSW system for 800 euro's, that would really be a game changer. I think if you settle
around the 1200 to 1400 mark, that is already lower than anything on the commercial market and will still be an incredible value for money.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried one? Might be a good idea before you settle on Fanatec and spend a good deal of money on something you know you will replace within an
additional 6 or 12 months of saving?

 

Probably I should have explained it better...

800€ is what I plan to spend, mainly because I've bought the IONI from the indiegogo campaign and I will DIY a lot of things.

For not diyers I highly suggest the Reimer solution!
Cost of the material alone provided by Reimer is much more than 800€:
1. Argon is 600€
2. Mige 450€
3. motor support is 70€
4. Discovery + cables + box probably another 150€
So we are talking of 1300€ for the bill of materials.
Then you must give a value for the Reimer service: another 300€ doesn't seems too much to me.
And then you are pretty sure that everything will work as intended.

My advice right now is to wait a little more and don't spend on the CSW.
I am pretty sure that Reimer will consider distributing a IONI version when the IONI driver will be readily availlable and experimented with this application, and this solution will easily cost 200€ less than the actual offer.

 

I wouldnt get to hung up on power ( Nm )

to me the important thing is clarity & detail, a system that can still transmit fine forces even whilst stronger forces are present
eg they dont become "cloaked" & lost,
no heat fade ( loss of clarity due to the motor becoming hot ) ,
a system that feels as good after a few years of hevy use as it did the first time of use ( no wear inside the motor )
perform equally well (detail) though subtle forces right through to the higher strong forces (no sweet spots )
be bomb proof

right now, its only the high end systems that can deliver these things : OSW / bodar / seno / EK

p.s of course I like some strength too, for those jolts etc

 

You do realize that the majority of those points have to with torque and headroom, right ?

 

Hiya wguze

No, although some torque headroom is nice ( avoids power going out of range which we refer to as clipping )
Theres much much more to consider than just clipping & different ffb wheels will give different levels of quality

the quality (-the things I've listed above) are to me much more important

Lower-mid end systems will cloak fine forces whilst a higher force is present -during the time that all forces are well below clip range , the controllers simply can't work out the complexity
+ the motors don't have the speed & fidelity even if the controller board wasn't so "dumb"

Nm's is one of the last things to worry about ( especially once you have a system that's into the double digits )

Obviously this is only based on my own experience, I own about 7 ffb wheels & have tried ( had on my rig for about a week ) pretty much all of the mid range wheels out there ( not the AF or some of the fanatics ) ( distroyed many lower end wheels -Logitech etc )

Different things important to different people though I guess

Ps clipping is a pain on low ( & even mid range wheels) the full servos the clipping problem is a thing of the past
I think the system I use 100% of the time now coukd almost rip someone's hands off without being close to clipping
( of course I don't run it this high , but still at a level its strong etc )

Pps. -trying to avoid what can turn out to be circular matter of claims & opinions (+a few graphs of Pluto's gravitational field thrown) in re.sim ffb systems , so again all above are only my own opinions, happy for others to agree/disagree
Take or leave etc

 

Hmm I didn't take the controller in consideration truth be told, between my fanatec csw and a proprietary direct drive system, there is such an incredible amount of torque difference,
which transmits everything through the dd wheel at any time, and any force. I'm driving a car (opel corsa powerrrrr) without power steering in real life and it is just about spot on in terms of what you feel through the wheel.

The 'cloaking' or as I like to refer as 'drowning out' is exactly what annoys on my fanatec, and I really blame it on torque. The software knows what forces to transmit, the driver knows, the hardware knows
it, it just physically can't push harder at some point, especially when you have high self aligning forces going on already. Those experiences makes me think a lot of stuff is tied in to torque, not even considering
clipping, but just the possible dynamic range of forces and their delivery

To be fair I don't know it has much to with opinion, someone who has actual numbers can probably simply tell us the facts ^^

 

fanatics seem like good wheels for the cost

the actual drive unit is only a part of a system, everything should be matched, I've noticed certain suppliers (trying not to mention names) that have put a high resolution encoder into their system & have repeatly mentioned the resolution of it (the encoder) on various forums, building a high res encoder into a system that can no way benefit from it is pointless -the encoder is relativly cheap & although pointless from a hardware point of view its not useless from a marketing & hype point of view -people really do fall for it ...then roll on the graphs & extended "google" talk lol its a total comedy when I think about it.

Nm i think is something that people focus on because it easy to consider
like some people will buy a camera based on the highest megapixel spec
( without considering the lens or the type of sensors & various other things someone that really knows about cameras could mention )
guess we could say its best to buy the car with the biggest engine etc

interesting that your fanatic cloaks -I notice these type of things alot (why i spent out on my system etc )
I'm really sensative to latency too , sadly

clipping meters are only a guesstimate (but still useful), its easy to feel out of force clipping,
much easier to feel cloaking / heat fade / & generally crap ffb (when comparing system to system), figurs are a guide of course, but the proof is in real time operation.

I recently turned my ffb strength up but toned it back a bit as my hands were aching the next day lol
a T500 can give some fairly strong forces but can be clip city , a great wheel at the price though
(of course no where near the power/ fluid like uninterrupted fidelity and range of forces subtle through to the kicks of the high end systems)

 

I have been reviewing the steering shaft torque plots from Motec. When looking at the highest sustained averages (like Suzuka R135 and Bahrain's high speed banked turn) few cars generate more than 13 Nm. The GTR has averages approaching 20Nm, and the Megan has averages in the high teens. The F1 cars approach 40 Nm. As with amplifiers, the key is headroom. I remember all the arguments in the 70s and 80s over max RMS power, but those who knew bought the amps with lower average power and more headroom. You don't want clipping in your music or your FFB.

I have the power supplied bar graph working on screen with the Accuforce wheel (it displays percentage). When I figure out how to use the clipping report function for this wheel I will report the results.

 

Your Accuforce is reaching 40Nm??? Or is that just what the game would be making your wheel do, theoretically speaking, if you had a wheel powerful enough?

 

Those are max sustained virtual steering shaft torques for various cars in game (regardless of your ffb wheel). You cannot measure the torque output from your ffb wheel with motec unless you have a torque sensor on/in the ffb wheel that is also being picked up by motec.

 

Yes. I was only pointing out what power a wheel must produce to provide real world torque (assuming rF2 is calculating it correctly). The F1 simulator available for the public at the Ferrari museum offers 50% of wheel force (and one third brake) and that was a beast.

The power supplied bar for the Accuforce shows the actual power in percent that the wheel delivers. I just did a few laps in the GT-R GT1 and the power delivered bounced between 75 and 100% at the highest Gs. Looking at the Motec steering shaft torque, I see the highest sustained averages of around 20Nm. The spikes when hitting curbs are 35 to 75. So, the question is: what is the torque quantity that rF2 is calling for when I have the Steering Torque Capability set at 16 and the FFB milt set at 1.0? Since the game is calling for an average sustained torque of 25% more than the Steering Torque Capability, I guess the game is scaling the torque down by at least that much. I will crank STC up to 20 and see if the actual wheel power maxes out during sustained Gs. What I do know is that the wheel is very strong and i don't feel any obvious clipping when hammering the curbs.

 

Good idea


Back to the Fana CSW V2 for a sec...
1. Does anyone here have the wheel weights for any of the following 3 Fanatec wheels?:
- Porsche 918
- Formula
- Formula Carbon

I emailed Fanatec 3 days ago with, still, no response, however, they replied my invite-code email within 6 hours.


2. Does anyone here know how many amps the motor/motors in the CSW V2 can take? If I could reliably drive the CSW V2 motor up to, let's say somewhere between 8.25 and 11 Nm, that would be absolutely fantastic!

 

re. wheel weights, I'm making a formula wheel right now
-laser cut aluminium (from my design cad) , carbon fibre dip , moulded grips, Leo bodnar circuit board, super light weight construction

does anyone have a heavy sim wheel + a light one and can give an personal opinion on difference ?

I've pretty much used the same two wheels for a long time & they have same diameter & around the same weight

p.s I know about inertia & weight loading etc it's the personal opinion of "feel" that I'm interested in

 

Don't think you will feel much of a diff with your servo sys because of the little weight diff, unless the steering ring is made of steel and may weighs 20 Kg allone with a big diameter. Radial speed maybe, due to the diameter diff.

As you said not to hang on Nm to much, i say the inertia at the steering wheel isn't a real value the would change something dramatical with enough torque. Actually the resistor as the standard steering wheels in real cars and the mathematical inertia is a joke for the applying forces and not really something the steering sys would fight against to overcome as an serious resistor.

So no, in my opinion the Nm are more important, otherwise it really could become a serious resistor, what isn't the case in a real environment.

 

cheers, I wouldn't of thought so either, I went through some trouble to get some hubs (from servo shaft to 6 bolt QR attachment )
milled out of aluminium as Leo bodnars weighed a ton (used solid steel), not sure if we put to much importance on wheel weights,
still going super light on this f1 wheel though

ps anyone wants an f1 wheel PM me, I'm having to make a few due to setup costs coming to a ton for just a one off!
(includes buttons & rotarys but no display as I use VR, but space & bracket for iPod touch using a touchscreen sim dash app,great solution+cost saving)

 

I edited my message, and yes the importance is wrong placed, but ofc it doesn't hurt to use lightweight material.