In most online races I have noticed that a lot of people seem to lock their wheels while going into corners. (lots of smoke) The way I see it, if someone keeps abusing their tyres like this for 5 laps in every corner, they should not be able to finish a race. Especially not as first or second or even third place! I seriously hope this will be fixed by ISI in the near future. Personally, I think of this as cheating since tyres don't really wear out by now or get punctured or whatever.
How is it cheating? You are in exactly the same situation we are all in, driving the same build. Yours will behave the same as ours. Not too sure about the smoke either, I've seen chunks off smoke coming off tyres that aren't locking, more like they are just on the limit. So I wouldn't judge that as someone locking up really badly. Either way, if you are locking into every tight corner, you are going to ruin your race from overheating them constantly. IIn terms of no tyre wear, I was in a 70 lapper round Mills in the Megane today, which was running just normal tyre wear. At the end of the race, my front right was badly worn, and the rear right was following quickly behind. My laptimes at the end started to drop as I was finding it harder and harder to push deep into corners. Default setups don't help, I know, but still. Compared to the previous race we ran, at Toban with 7X tyre wear, no ill affects at all after 60 laps, infact my last 7 odd laps were my best in the whole race. So I reckon yes, there is wear like Tim said, but it's a bit odd at the minute.
your right.. i have said to the members i play with that the tyres and collision models need to be at a better state than now, this is what we need b4 going to race a season in rf2, some agree, some say we will drive it like rf1 till that happens as might be awhile as the beta is taking longer than expected. so its a waiting game...LOL cheating: maybe not but maybe better times.
Yet again, my opinion is that it's fine for racing with. Like above, its the same for everyone, so racing can still happen. It's just it's not racing in a fully perfect working sim. Close races still happen, crazy overtakes still happen, pit strategy still is important, etc. Thats just my view though XD
You can do sprint races, albeit with 'crazy' driving not too badly punished - yes, tyre temps go up if you lock or slide a lot, but take it easy for a bit and they come back down. Fuel strategy can work, but trying to have a racing series based on a real one is very difficult when tyre wear has little effect. We're moving into rF2 anyway, after waiting a year more than we thought we might back when we were anticipating rF2's initial release, and we have to accept it'll have a few shortcomings. Still plenty to switch for, but the lack of tyre degradation is a shame. Especially bearing in mind we race a series that has no refueling...
Well if the tyres smoke as a blown engine would, for as long as the braking into the corner lasts then the tyres are definitely OVER their limit not at their limit. Sorry. I hardly lock up my tyres. Maybe I know better how hard to brake than other people?
I agree with you Racefreak, I see cars locking constantly at almost every braking lap after lap and tires don't seem to get a serious flat spot nor a blow up. Today we have the 1 hour Lola race at Sebring, let's see if theese type of drivers' cars can keep the tires till the end. If they do, there's something wrong out there.
It doesn't work that way. It means that you or your subconscious wants it to be like you imagined, not like it is now. Does it make you a better driver? Yes and no. In real life when you find that sweetspot where to brake into corner, as late as possible, without locking up it makes you a better driver. However if you brake into corner without locking up and some other guy brakes later and still doesn't lock up it makes him a better one. However if we are talking about this particular sim at this particular state when locking up doesn't punish you that much it is better to lock up, simply because it is the faster way around circuit (because of being able to brake later and harder). I don't find it as cheating or whatever. I would rather call it exploiting a loophole (just like with technical loopholes that F1 teams invent to gain some advantage. They don't hesitate to make use of them, neither should you). I know it's frustrating to see a kid driving the wheels off (sometimes quite literally) in very messy, sloppy way with lots of smoke each lap he/she makes and still is able to perform at the highest level just "like that". 30 laps of locking up and he/she's still able to do very fast laps regularly while you're trying to drive reasonably and you don't gain anything. My advice is to try driving like them. Try braking on the limit even if it means locking up all the time. You won't lose anything by it right now. Even I do it. However I usually tweak my setups a lot to make them as stable, as fast and as gentle as possible. It's an old habit of mine. When I raced in rf1 I always worked on my setups to make them as fast as possible and after that I tried to make them very gentle on the tyres without losing any speed (even gaining speed just by being able to maintain good pace for longer due to lower degradation). That's the same story in rf2 and after many tweaks it really improves the situation a lot. I can brake as late as possible but without cloud of smoke etc. So try tweaking your setup a bit, it may help if you encounter such obstacle when driving hard. I guess as rf2 progresses it will reward people with gentle/smooth driving style more because of more developed tyre model and wear. Then you could return to your previous driving style. It will be time for me and many others to do the same. For some it will be harder (then you could lol at them xD) and for some it will be easier (I'm a lucky one because right now I know that I'm abusing my tyres and I know how to stop doing it. It won't cause me any trouble at all). Although... There are many ways to skin a cat. Try to find what's best for you. Always glad to help. Heck, you can even PM me and when I'll have few minutes I could help you with setup or driving. Maybe I will learn sth from you. I like to stay open minded.
Ronnie, thanks, I might just take you up on that offer but I seriously doubt you could learn anything from me. Even though I have read books about race car setups (Carroll Smith's Tune to Win e.g.), I still have no clue whatsoever about any of it. I'm hopeless in this regard,i feel like every change I make, makes the handling of the car worse everytime.
Thank you gorgias, if everything goes well I'll be there at Sebring. However, I can't seem to get the Lola under control. Might be my setup. Well, at best you will see me drifting around corners.
Changing attitude might help aswell. Cheer up. I'm waiting for your PM. I'm a busy man, I can't race with my buddies because of that but sometimes I drive couple of laps just to relax and for pure pleasure. I may aswell spend some time helping fellow simracer instead of doing couple of laps once in a while alone (sometimes it is once in 2 weeks time, but soon it will change and I can race again). I like the feeling of achieving sth even if it's someone else accomplishment because for my input.
That's the problem - locking up should not be the fastest way around the track (not talking about gravel/snow).
@ Racefreak 1976, Personally I match you're criteria; I lock up a whole lot and in one of the early races last night, I finished second. That makes me think; "hmm, a league colleague thinks I'm a cheater". I don't like that; if you think I'm cheating; you should report that to the league and I'll be thrown out if they agree. I really hope do you because the matter get's cleared out than and we all can go back to racing I get your drift though, but what about those of us who play with a crummy wheel; practically no ffb and the move of the brake pedal is just an inch.....having no feel in the pedal either. I don't feel locking up, I have no clue whatsoever what my car is doing and in the Lola; I see the smoke to late. F2 60's is better; I see the wheels and hear the squealing of them, making me react pretty early on that and the smoking is 10% of what I produce with the Lola. (Lola doesn't squeal btw) But really; have you thought of that before "accusing" people of cheating? Lesser wheels? I don't feel offended by it; if that's the way you feel it is; so be it. I don't like reading it, but that's my problem EDIT; Did you think about the fact that locking up doesn't shorten the braking distance? And it doesn't make your car behave well in terms of steering into a corner or stability? You make it sound like guys who lock up, have a big advantage?
I think 'cheating' was a poor choice of words (or intent), obviously you'd like to see people who abuse their tyres suffer the consequences as the race progresses, but they're hardly cheating because it doesn't happen. Some might be aware of the shortcoming and are taking advantage by pushing the limits but that's what drivers are supposed to do Hmm... you can easily create a flatspot, not as severe as in that vid (didn't he say it was 100x accelerated or something?), but you can lock up a tyre and see the 'hot' spot, and even after it cools you can see the extra wear on that spot if you roll along very slowly. I've had 3 separate lockups visible when I was testing it once. Unfortunately it appears to have little/no effect on how the tyre grips, though. Graphics and physics are different things.
That video is done with high tire wear increase, 7x or what ever at the time was the max. Things have changed since then, and since it is beta, some stuff will be pulled away to be worked on and others come in place to be tested. Should there be realistic tire wear, mechanical failure, damage model, Yes. Should the tire temp, oil temp, water temp, air temp, track temp, temptest, tempura, fuel mixture and fuel amount affect the racer/vehicle combinations power/behavior/speed/grip, Yes. Should the unrealistic driving be punishable by death, Yes. All these things are which any sim would be better off having. All I know is that, rF2 Tire model, damage model, mechanical failure model are not done and this has been went thru before. Arguing are these things here now or are they worth having is redundant at best.
Not necessarily. It's usually inside wheels which tends to lock and smoke during trail braking. There's not much weight on inside wheels hence not much grip available either. So it's a trade-off between using full potential of outside wheels and compromising your inside wheels. Not cheating IMHO as it's same for everyone and driver should always try to use the full potential available in tires anyway. If you want to prevent inside tires from locking try softening anti-roll bars. We just have to wait tire model gets finished. It's so important part of racing that I really don't want ISI to hurry on that part. Hmm, updating tire model afterwards will ruin hot lap times BUT on the other hand when you think of it then hot lapping isn't real-world phenomen either. I mean in real racing there's not much value what lap times drivers were able to do yesterday because circumstances play such a big role. So I think it would be good thing if ISI would constantly improve their tire model. It shouldn't be too much trouble for modders to update and release new versions of their vehicles when tire model gets updated (if it's done for example once or twice per year).
Ok, I have to admit that, in my furious anger, I might have picked a bad word for what I was trying to get across. I'm blaming my lack of english vocabulary for it. Also, I do understand that there might be people out there who are driving with a keyboard or less. I still think it's unfair and it pisses me off big time when I see people locking up every damn corner intentionally! There is no way in hell i'm taking this back. I want to see all these guys when the tyre model is working as it should. I don't intent to blame certain individuals here, just letting off some steam.
Try increasing rear toe-in. It has helped me get the rear of the car a bit more under control under acceleration. On the other hand, I don't think RaceFreak considered it as "cheating" but as getting some advantage. Unlinke Ronnie suggests, I can't change to that style, it goes beyond my driving logic.
I believe it could be fastest way around only on very short races so personally wouldn't give a s**t.
