They change the torque map for starts, pitstops, wet conditions, etc. What this does is lower the throttle output percentage-wise in relation to the pedal stroke. In essence, they probably change the linearity like we can do in the controls configuration window. Sebastian Vettels' engineer likes to remind him of this every time: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/08/31/2014-belgian-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/ or in this video, Nico Rosberg explanis the torque mapping switch on his 2011 steering wheel, at the 50 seconds mark: Some similar type of feeling can be introduced by the pitlimiter. Check out the difference of starting without it, or driving off out of stationary position in a pitstop. For the life of me I can't drive off from the start grid as good as I can from a pit stop, the latter being way less hard to do. For racestarts, I really tend to give it too much throttle. I already requested more steering wheel functionality some time ago, as we really simply need it to simulate what the guys do on track, if only for wet conditions for example. People complaining about the tire model vs wet weather, without the possibility to adjust the torque map, hmmmmmm.
OK. I was wrong: you wrote "tyre slip" but you were thinking "car slide". The road we should travel before start talking about sensibilities is so long I don't even dare to start.
Yea, totally agree. I think it shouldn't be hard to code something like what you've suggested, and give the possibility to change torque maps while driving. Those ones could be specified in some physics file with a simple lookup table. It would add soooo much inmersion and possibilities in cars like F1s... not only on wet conditions, but for example when you have some important tire wear on the rears, you could change the torque map to a less agressive one, etc. Same with differentials. Come on ISI, you've coded much more difficult things than this Edit: Thanks Spinelli for giving me some Youtube views
It's not torque maps. Try to find any video of a car being revved with throttle and RPM telemetry. Just sit in a car and rev it. Compare it to the Panoz. I own a car with a similar engine to the Panoz but even more powerfull and "race" tuned (details below), and it doesn't act like any rF2 car including the Panoz, but rather it acts along the same lines as the F1 videos I posted (slower and lower revving than an F1 obviously, lol), and I don't have different torque/throttle maps on my car, lol. I've been in multiple F2000s, and they never did this sort of behavior either, like the rF2 F2000 does. It's messed. There is a big difference between modulating and not. Practicing has nothing to do with it either. The point is, in real life if you go from 0 to 15, 20, 30 % throttle the revs go up to a certain amount and stay there, in rF2 if you do the same thing the revs skyrocket to redline, or they rise up and keep rising and rising much too far until you are within 1000 RPM or so of redline. Go rev any car, give it a quick, but small, kick to 20 or so % throttle, the revs will not rise up and keep rising and rising until the car is bouncing off the limiter or within 1000 RPM or so of it's redline. I just tried it in the skip barber, a car with a 150-ish hp engine that can barely be considered a "true" racecar engine. Same behavior. Not as lighting quick as the F1s, but within a second or two of just going from 0 to 25-ish % throttle (without lifting/modulating) the revs go to redline, or at least 6000 RPM. I'll say it again, this is wrong. I have driven multiple F2000s and worked at a place for almost a year where every morning we would hop in the F2000s and hold their RPMs at, I think it was 2500 RPM, for about 10 minutes before driving them from just outside the garage to the track, they never behaved like this. It happens with the rF2 Panoz too, and I own a car with a similar engine to the Panoz (5.7 L Chevrolet LS1 V8, with custom aggressive camshaft, heads, intake etc. about 550 hp, 460 at the wheels, stock is 340-ish 290-ish at the wheels). It's a problem with every car I tried, same with Game Stock Car and rF1. Clearly an issue buried in the ISI engine, and I bet this issue of constant, non-modulated, very low amounts of throttle, making the revs want to shoot up massively and way too much relative to how little the throttle is being held at, can cause issues while driving (when car slips rear tyres, when rear tyres lift in the air, bumps, etc.) I use the pedal plugin overlay to see how much the game is registering my throttle as, so I could visually see that I was at very low throttle. It doesn't matter how linear or non-linear the pedals are, 25% is 25% is 25% (25% in-game obviously, not my actual physical raw pedal travel which is irrelevant), the linearity adjusts the rate of change as you add more or less input, but this is about just simply revving from idle straight to 25-ish % throttle and keeping it there, no modulating or anything like that. Just push pedal to whatever the game registers as 25-ish % throttle and hold it, don't modulate. However, even so, I did try different linearity settings (20%, 45%, 100% fully linear, and 150%), didn't make a difference, and again, it shouldn't because it's a steady throttle state issue.
What you are describing sure does sound like a problem to me and it would be worth it to investigate. Either validate or debunk, I think there might be some truth to it, the way you explain it. This calls for telemetry screenshots Torque maps, or missing out on them, is a problem all on it's own, it's simply something we should have had long ago as a setup option, including other ones I do think the tone of these discussion however, not aimed at anyone in particular, might cause the devteam to be quite a bit less eager to investigate these sorts of 'hunches' people have, no matter how much truth there might be in them.
I remember the rF1 F1 cars had torque map settings smoother broader torque curve but less peak power, vice versa, etc. So i'm assuming that it's definitely possible in rF2 if it was done in rF1
Yeah sure, I don't think there are many things which can be considered impossible with this package. It's only a matter of priority and time I guess.
You can find the default torque map used from the engine.ini file of unencrypted cars, it's under name VolumeFract. I plotted this for FISI 2012 car: View attachment 14186 As you can see the throttle response is highly nonlinear in lower RPM's. It's clearly made on purpose like this, whether realistic or not, I can't comment. But basically you have to lower the throttle sensitivity from rF2 controller settings page and make the curve more U-like to counteract this nonlinearity, because it's not intuitive at all to drive with defaults. Some people even use as low as 30%. Regarding the issue of Spinelli in idle revs, I think it's partly issue of this nonlinearity, which would be solved by lowering throttle sensitivity. It could also be issue of too low engine inertia as Domi mentioned. But anyway I don't think this is an important issue because you don't drive the engine against idle when racing, you drive it under load. The response in idle is just engine operating under a very special condition.
It has nothing to do with my physical pedal's throw. 20% throttle in the game is 20 % throttle, doesn't matter what my controller settings linearity is, or what pedals I have. Putting my pedal to what the game registers at 20%, is well, 20%. 20% in-game, according to rF2, is 20% is 20% is 20% (regardless though, I tried 20%, 45%, 100% fully linear, and 150% throttle controller linearity) Exactly, and that's part of the problem, lol. RF2 does not behave like that. If you put the throttle to 20 or 30% then it shoots to redline, but if you start modulating the throttle, bringing it up then back down, etc. then you can eventually get it to a lower RPM while using the exact same amount of throttle as before. To me it looked like you just added a tiny amount, for example, lets say from 25% to 30%, then bam revs shot up. Edit: Just watched your vid again, that little bit more throttle you give at the end does the same thing, just makes it spike. It's simple actually, just do this......Do the exact same thing as in your video but bring the revs up in one throttle press. Go from 0 to around whatever percent you are giving in your video (lets say 25-ish %). Dont gradually apply throttle slowly, don't rev it up and then drop the revs back down or any sort of modulation, just do one very quick press from 0 to 25-ish % without the slightest modulation/lift, and you will easily see what I am talking about and what does NOT happen in real-life . Try it. I did it like 50 times in my video with 2 cars, and just also tried it with the Skippy, the Panoz and the both Nissans and they all do the same thing. It's very, very easy to replicate, and clearly wrong.
Right, that is true. But how do you know where the throttle reading is taken from on F1 onboards? Basically all F1 drivers have tweaked throttle map to their preference; some like to press throttle more before getting a response, some less. Only way of altering throttle in rF2 is to lower sensitivity from controller settings page. So I think to be fully accurate you should take the reading from your own throttle pedal and not the "in-game throttle". I did a test for fun with my civil car and revs do go up very quickly on idle, it was not easy to control exact rev count for me. And this was with a low horsepower Peugeot engine.
Looks like there is something in spinelli's engine, ghost modulating airflow and injection. I tested throttle response a time ago but don't mind as i tought the hardware was the issue. Basically throttle level modulation with an unloaded engine should be possible with allmost all standard cars. I didn't experienced otherwise. Of course, the electronics would allow crazy stuff when it offers the possibilitys. Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk
Yeah to lower the throttle sensitivity was my personal mind and I did this months ago. Good to hear that this conclusion was not so wrong .
i dont know if this is relevant but in rf2 i find you have to modulate the throttle somewhat when sitting in neutral, in order to keep a set rpm, the rpms do shoot up a bit on my initial press of the peddle(g25).....i would not normally do this but after reading this thread , i thought , hey i'll try it - so it got me thinking.....maybe spinelli has a point(or my pedals are wrong).....i went to the garage and fired up my 490bhp v8 street car....rpm's shot up and then came back down to idle. so i press the accel. and immediately have to press hard to get anything , the rpm's shot up beyond what i hoped - not smooth just bam,... i found/find it more difficult with the heavy pedal and added play to keep a steady rpm in my real car than in my sim car- well that was not enough , i took it out to the highway and got it up to 120kmph rpm's at 1500, i press the clutch and pop it in neutral taking my foot off the gas- rpm's popped up to 2300 for a sec before settling back to idle 1100rpm so my point in posting this is - i am questioning spinelli's version of reality at this point .....i dont think this is a problem with the sim cars
That has nothing to do with constant rpm at a specific input. That is for stabilize the idle. Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk
I think there is an issue, and as mr Loatman explained, it could be probably hardware related. This doesn't mean that something about engine behaviour is not ok, but probably there is more than a single problem. For starter, pedal overlay can show you pedal input only once per frame, so, it's not a real "realtime" visualization of the throttle input. I have a crappy wheel and pedal setup (logitech DFP), and in the setting panel I CAN see the pedal output introduce input errors if I squeeze the pedal, doing it slowly or abruptly appear to have some influence in the amount and intensity of reading errors. I don't know if this is related to how a potentiometer is made or if there is some sort of data extrapolation done by the sim, but anyway it is here. The problem in the sim is that (maybe) even if just for a very brief time, those input spike appear to be able to make the engine accelerate, to some extent this may even be possible (imagine that just for a single engine turn, the amount of fuel that enter the chambers is increased. Now, with hardware the problem is that the number and the kind of problems can be so many that it could not be easy to detect, but at the same time, the engine simulation (maybe) should not be so sensible to those signal noises.
This is my thread to address rF2 rear wheel grip issue while oversteering. I just cold not believe all those BS response and trolls going on. I never did such to any one. I have been praising rF2 all the time and always think rF2 is the best Sim (see all my videos, under "Joe Extraknow" at youtube, or type key words "rFactor Joe Extraknow"). Now, I have to think twice after trying AC cars. At least on rear wheel grip issue. I am an end-user and expect the rF2 product is complete product at this point. This is shall be nothing to do with any settings or setup indeed. Very simple tests I performed: I took three rF2 GT cars (GT1, GT2, and GT3) against three AC GT cars same classes (GT1, GT2, and GT3) on silverstone. I picked up a fix corner for testing and drove a car at least 5 laps so tire is wormed up, with TC off (repeat: TC OFF). I marked a enter point and made same entry speed at that point then let go (without brake and throttle applied)-- repeat: no brake and throttle applied after entry point. I tried steer with same radius as possible for all the cars as corning. At certain entry speed, not even high enough, ALL rF2 GT cars spin off, while AC GT cars still and sliding. This is pure apple-to-apple comparison, Nothing to do with all BS i got from those responses. It is my belief there is a fault in rF2 tire modeling.
Since you are comparing with AC, your belief implies that AC tyre model is correct. From a logical standpoint it could be just the opposite. But... May I suggest another little experiment? Download the URD Corvette (it's free and it's the same car included in the payware mod), do the same trial and report here your findings.
Eh? Those updated GT cars are incredibly stable now, and quite easy to powerslide if needed... Edit: seen some of your videos... don't want to sound arrogant, but you are very far to drive any car close to its limit...
