The end of free mods?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by olex, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    So my desktop picture of the Ferrari emblem is copyright infrigement? I can get fined and/or go to jail for that?

    I dont think it works like that I think its only whats physically the property of the company



    FOR EXAMPLE:

    Many peoples videos from tv broadcasts of F1 races were taken off of youtube...BUT, peoples home made videos of F1 races from the stands or whatever dont get taken down because F1 or whoever dont own that "video" they only hold the tv broadcast videos if you know what I mean.

    Now I dont see how making your own mod from scratch with your own equipment is different than filming an F1 race with your own equipment or putting up a bunch of wallpaper pictures online of Ferraris and/or other exotic cars.

    MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS:

    The whole way the Enduracers mod group is...well....known as a group. They give themselves a name for their group, and then that group makes a product, and then that group advertises it as a product they make and will release to the public.

    I bet if they didnt do it that way this would never have happened. I bet if some random guy on the forums came on and just said "hi everyone, here is a cool mod I found online, it seems to be some new awesome mod". Then im sure noone would have never been contacted, actually there would never have been anyone to contact.

    You cant blame enduracers though, of course they will take pride in their groups work, and want to show people to get excited, etc etc
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  2. Dany Mitchel

    Dany Mitchel Registered

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    all I know is if car manufacturers start complaining they are not getting their cut and out law the use of there car models
    I will just take their cars and add a new shell and call it for example Porsche to Borsche or something like that this means nothing to me as it is the game engine that gives me the immersion not the car I cant see from my cockpit. I have seen this in other games and they all worked around it
    just look a Pcars every car and track in the game you have seen before but you will not know that by the names you will have to drive them then realise hey wait a min this is Spa
     
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  3. Apa

    Apa Registered

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    This just makes me want to create only Porsche and Ferrari mods.
     
  4. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Not sure of the exact laws in other countries, but in the US there are specific guidelines that must be followed when using something that has been copyrighted. For instance, you want to create an avatar from an image you found online. Under US laws, if your image uses more than 30% of the original image, you are violating the law. There are also other aspects that come into play but they are too numerous to list here.

    Also, just because you are not making money on something doesn't mean that you are allowed to use copyrighted work. There is such a thing as intellectual property, and most companies hold so many copyrights it would be difficult to list them all in the frame of a forum post. In the past companies have sued and won when someone uses a likeness to something the company owns.

    If you do any skinning at all and look at sites that offer company logo's, you will find that they are now eliminating images of company logo's because of copyright issues.

    I think the reason that some companies are cracking down on their rights is because there are some who use company logo's and images in a negative light and the company would rather not have that happen. Also as has been stated earlier, some companies have paid to have exclusive rights to specific items and force the other companies to enforce this as they are under contract. Most likely as has been stated earlier Porsche has signed an exclusivity contract with someone and is being forced to limit the availability of their product for other software titles.

    What all this means to us is that modders will have to make more than just a rebadge of the car in order to avoid prosecution. Likely they will have to alter the look significantly enough that the model could be for something other than a Porsche. In the end this will only eliminate a brand or two from the modding community as I am pretty sure most manufacturers are not going to pursue this like Porsche.
     
  5. KaIIe

    KaIIe Registered

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    Some/most of them are taken down because FOM/whoever owns "everything" releated to F1.
     
  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ya thats what I said, but peoples homemade videos, as in you filmed the action on your home video camera or cell phone while you were sitting in the stands at one of the races never get taken down.
     
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    This is just someone doing what they believe is best for their intellectual property. Whether you agree or not, that is all they are doing. It certainly isn't anything personal against you, the modder, the community, etc. Try not to feel hurt by this.

    It has happened before in sim racing, and it will happen again. Things change, priorities change, plans change, and I think that is all that this is about.
     
  8. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    FOM own the TV broadcast. Technically, according to the smallprint on tickets, they usually own all photos and video taken on the premises, too, but I have seldom seen them enforce that.
     
  9. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    Many events these days will prohibit cameras for this exact reason unless you have a press pass, silly in my view as nearly everyone has a camera on them in the form of a mobile phone. They are trying to crack down on this and have notes regarding use of images or video from the event on tickets or signs at the gate. This will generally say you have no right to publish any images or videos captured at the event unless approved in writing by the governing body. If you filmed from your house or hotel room during a GP then they likely have no claim but if you are inside the grounds of the track where they will publish their claims of copyright and your lack of any rights to such images or video then they can stop you from publishing and are legally entitled to do so if they choose.

    The olympics were likely one of the worst at this not that I was there but the IOC is one of the strictest regarding rights to all footage from the event, this is because they charge a very high premium for exclusive footage and need to try and ensure others dont get any free footage. Formula 1 would be pretty close behind and they order many videos to be taken down from youtube over copyright violations.

    US copyright and patent laws are a complete joke and do little beyond making lawyers rich and people get a negative view of brands going well beyond what most would see as fair use. Copyrights are the same but I see it the funniest claiming copyright infringement on a commercial product generating revenue by exposure of the advertising paid for by sponsors, then trying to limit the exposure of this, isn't it hurting the sponsors who would like maximum exposure.

    Sure if done in bad taste or hurting the image of the brand or sponsor but a faithful recreation of the car in a race sim is showing it in the same way as viewing the race on tv. The funny thing is that if it weren't for mods or sims many series would have had little interest to me, after using the car or track in game I am more likely to watch the tv coverage of the series. This brings more viewers and again more exposure to sponsors and I cant see any way a well done mod is hurting a brand image or cars sponsor.

    The only thing hurting their image is cracking down on such mods, and threatening modders with legal action. Not the modders who do a much better job of recreating the cars then any arcade game contract they may have signed for some quick cash. Many of these are such rubbish they also may hurt the brands image by people paying money for something that turned out to be complete junk. Then they find out its hard to get a mod of the series in question because an exclusive deal was signed with the poor arcade game so it will just turn them away from the series altogether.
     
  10. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    No, I dont think its just someone.

    I believe its an impersonal thing, started by a comitee, consisting of people checking at their Blackberries stock exchange while congressing, talking about a subject that Im sure they dont know anything about (Im sure they arent simmers or they do it and not admit it), somewhere at Marketing or whatever dept, because somebody thought it may be a great idea to show he is a great guy with a big loyalty to the company.

    Doesnt it strike you that it happened the moment Porsche got sold?
    Im sure Enzo or Ferry wouldnt do such a thing, but hey, nowdays companies are out of the hands of enthusiasts (people who cared about their image and ethics) and in the hands of grey suits with no common sense.

    btw, pretty same thing happened when Bill Gates stepped down from Microsoft and, woosh, FSX was substituted with...Flight.
     
  11. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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    you can't work around the problem using fictional names and skins?

    (and eventually a separate patch for correct them? :) )
     
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I could probably only reply to your post, with what I already posted. Although, while trying to license cars for rF2, I believe I have encountered quite a few people who don't have passion for the brand they represent, it is all about what they can get out of the deal. That is a shame, but again, it is their intellectual property.
     
  13. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    This is not about Porsche or Enduracers or mods or good/bad will, there are laws, simply as that
     
  14. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Yeah, they do have right to do it of course, I consider it as shooting own leg of course, but that is how it is.

    I wonder if in future even building owners start to chase off anyone taking photos of buildings, land owners for taking photos from their land, Google should pay a lot from their street view then.
     
  15. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    After it happened to me a lot (I love architecture), I just stopped shooting, I just cannot take the hassle of arguing about intellectual property with small brained people anymore.
     
  16. Tobi Coats

    Tobi Coats Registered

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    A interesting thought. Last month orsms v8supercar mod was used on a reality TVshow with bathurst. Both the track and the car makers plus v8supercars name would all have to be licenced or face this. But never publicly have. I wonder who tiped porshe off. Public release may have been baned but there was No mention of private league use. Which in the community seams to mean it would take one leak and it's out there. Look at the I think lmt abu track and that escaped
     
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    So we are really lucky this guy

    [​IMG]

    didnt patented the wheel.
     
  18. Dany Mitchel

    Dany Mitchel Registered

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    I hear you there I am a bankrupt and do not own a penny I live in rural England If they want to come take my lap top then so be it.
    If I have to only allow my website members exclusive downloads so be it. This will mean not to many people get it but I have a feeling I will be using full names and full models of all my cars and tracks lol
    I am not in USA and I do not really think anyone will come a knocking on my door also I have 1 very angry English bull terriers and 1 Totally mental Staffy she is the trigger he is the gun and they hate anyone knocking on my door so good luck with that one

    View attachment 3898

    if you want to come in and take my laptop then please ask them 2 if it would be OK lol
     
  19. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    [​IMG]

    Well, they look...lovely (for the job that is) :D
     
  20. djvicious

    djvicious Registered

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    Hey Tim, since you appear to be one of the men behind licensing for rF2, how much of a challenge is it to license content? I only have a very vague understanding of the process. Does ISI have to pay a flat fee for a car or track, or is it paid through shares of revenue? Or, does the car company pay ISI as a form of advertising? Like, who approaches who for licensing and is it a big affair replete with stern high-powered lawyers?

    Can you provide some ideas on what goes on with licensing? I'm not looking to steal the trade secrets, I would just like to know how it works.
     
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