ChiefWiggum
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fine, don't forget to check the FFB from the Matra short (1972 Pescarolo #15)
[WIP] Sportscar 70' Style
- Thread starter ChiefWiggum
- Start date
MileSeven
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So, after a few test laps around Watkins Glen Boot NC….
With the long tail, I need to boost the car-specific FFB to 160% plus to get any kind of weight (noting that my global FFB setting is (negative) 45%
With the short tail, the FFB is still probably a bit strong at 60% - and it feels quite grainy at times. I’d probably dial it down another 5-10% in overall strength terms for longer races.
Both experiences were with an identical set up (both physically and in terms of the car setup).
Sooo - from this brief test I’d say the short tail has gone too far (but is still scalable obviously) - just a bit concerned about the graininess. The long tail (which I assume is unchanged from v0.91) is waaaay to soft for me and is possibly lacking some detail…
Happy to test further and thanks for looking at it.
svictor
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All cars in recent F1 70's Style updates have already included new independent adjustable mirrors (which I helped separate mirror parts and add complex upgrades & gens entries to make everything functional). So at least for F1 70's Style, the mirrors are fully adjustable now.
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EmperorOfFinland
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So the problem with FFB can probably be fixed by either having upgrades for different wheels with this value on it.
NominalMaxSteeringTorque=22.5 // Maximum steering arm torque to effect force feedback strength
you can adjust the value you currently have on there to tweak the FFB on wheels on the mod. Alternatively you can write a HDV upgrade that has couple presets of this for different wheels. i dont actually remember the direction that increased FFB but this value determines the FFB that the car will produce and if the car generates too little FFB that might tell that the car has this value needs to be tweaked around to optimise FFB, of course i think best option might be an adjustable upgrade for people wanting different FFB on different wheels.
So if the cars run the same value then it might be physics based. but also the weight of the car and suspension geometry adjust that value of the car. so for example on my own cars the higher downforce car has heavier steering than the one that has less downforce.
NominalMaxSteeringTorque=22.5 // Maximum steering arm torque to effect force feedback strength
you can adjust the value you currently have on there to tweak the FFB on wheels on the mod. Alternatively you can write a HDV upgrade that has couple presets of this for different wheels. i dont actually remember the direction that increased FFB but this value determines the FFB that the car will produce and if the car generates too little FFB that might tell that the car has this value needs to be tweaked around to optimise FFB, of course i think best option might be an adjustable upgrade for people wanting different FFB on different wheels.
So if the cars run the same value then it might be physics based. but also the weight of the car and suspension geometry adjust that value of the car. so for example on my own cars the higher downforce car has heavier steering than the one that has less downforce.
MileSeven
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Brilliant, thanks, much appreciated. I had seen the F1 update a few times in the most recent period but hadn’t gotten around to trying them since we raced them earlier in the year as a short league (plus our Wednesday fun sprints).
ChiefWiggum
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maybe I will try to add a closed Car in the Future
Luprosx
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Small note: I tested the Matra in Spa 2020. You can drive through the EueRouge with the car at 260 km/h. That seems rather exaggeratedly fast to me. The cars 40-50 years ago didn't have such good tires or chassis and aero! Maybe you can make it a little more realistic.
A few Porsches have this V8 drive, when will the original engines come out? E.g. 917/10-71 and 917/30-72u.73
For the Matra with a roof, there was the, I don't think so, please no fantasy car!
Otherwise fine mod, fun.
Another question, when setting auto shift (F7) you cannot shift up and down at the same time as with the original 397 cars. you have to set to manual (F7). can this be changed?
Or is that historically intended?
A few Porsches have this V8 drive, when will the original engines come out? E.g. 917/10-71 and 917/30-72u.73
For the Matra with a roof, there was the, I don't think so, please no fantasy car!
Otherwise fine mod, fun.
Another question, when setting auto shift (F7) you cannot shift up and down at the same time as with the original 397 cars. you have to set to manual (F7). can this be changed?
Or is that historically intended?
Nicola59
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Thank you for comments.
About your observations:
It’s also true that 2020 SPA is not 1972-73 track.., Did you experienced the same on SPA 1966?
What does it mean “V8 drive”?
And.. gearing of Matra, like other cars of that 70 era, is not automatic or semiautomatic ( like it should be ). So, when you shift the gear you see N for a moment…and, yes, it’s not possible to make up and down in the same moment. But autogearing ( set in option menû ) is working…...
Sorry if I’ve not understood well the issue.
Thank you
About your observations:
It’s also true that 2020 SPA is not 1972-73 track.., Did you experienced the same on SPA 1966?
What does it mean “V8 drive”?
And.. gearing of Matra, like other cars of that 70 era, is not automatic or semiautomatic ( like it should be ). So, when you shift the gear you see N for a moment…and, yes, it’s not possible to make up and down in the same moment. But autogearing ( set in option menû ) is working…...
Sorry if I’ve not understood well the issue.
Thank you
Luprosx
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Spa 2020 is certainly different from Spa 1966 or 1972.
But I can drive through in rF2 with a modern F1 2019-2022 in EueRouge 2020 with 240 to 260 km/full.
What I mean is that you can't do that with a 1971-1977 prototype, the old car lacks the downforce and the newer tires and chassis to do so.
I think the speed is therefore unrealistic in this case!
With the V8 engines, I mean the 8 intake trumpets on the engine.
No Porsche of the 917-10 or 30 type had that.
The Porsche was a 12 cylinder with fan on top and no high intake trumpets.
Autogearing works ok, but with the original 397 cars in auto gearing you can also shift up and down manually without using F7 first. (F7 = switch mode, set).
I hope I described it well!
But I can drive through in rF2 with a modern F1 2019-2022 in EueRouge 2020 with 240 to 260 km/full.
What I mean is that you can't do that with a 1971-1977 prototype, the old car lacks the downforce and the newer tires and chassis to do so.
I think the speed is therefore unrealistic in this case!
With the V8 engines, I mean the 8 intake trumpets on the engine.
No Porsche of the 917-10 or 30 type had that.
The Porsche was a 12 cylinder with fan on top and no high intake trumpets.
Autogearing works ok, but with the original 397 cars in auto gearing you can also shift up and down manually without using F7 first. (F7 = switch mode, set).
I hope I described it well!
Luprosx
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ChiefWiggum
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There are no correct 3d Engines at the Moment
I've spent a fair amount of time with your mods trying to come up with a good profile on my wheel to drive them but have been unsuccessful. The short tail (stronger FFB) is the first ChiefWiggum mod I can finally drive (not counting the RF1 stuff). But with this update even with the long tail (weaker FFB), I can now use the per car multiplier and get drivable results. I may be wrong here though, and maybe this was the case before. I only tested it previously for a few minutes, and when I felt the weak FFB, I uninstalled it because of my previous experience with your other mods.
I hope you apply this new formula with the other mods... especially the Alfa Romero 33 TT 12. Interestingly enough I think the Cart 85 (maybe it was the 90, the one where people were complaining about easily blowing the engines) had a placeholder FFB/physics in the early stages and felt good and drivable, but when it was updated to the current FFB/physics it felt weak again.
I hope you apply this new formula with the other mods... especially the Alfa Romero 33 TT 12. Interestingly enough I think the Cart 85 (maybe it was the 90, the one where people were complaining about easily blowing the engines) had a placeholder FFB/physics in the early stages and felt good and drivable, but when it was updated to the current FFB/physics it felt weak again.
EmperorOfFinland
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So i noticed myself than getting the multiplier on the physics side might not be that easy since settings good for a DD might be too weak for G29 and so on. so it needs multple tests. also the steering rack geometry affects the amount of FFB aswell. and it might be that the long tail has less downforce and different steeringrack configuration.
The main problem with it that calculating that does require quite heavy engineering work on the steeringrack itself. and even small changes might have widely different results all together. i do remember the 1970s sportscars in RF1 having less FFB on the 917LH long tail than on the short tail 917K and this would mostly be cause of the reduced downforce of the car. earlier 917 even produced lift at high speeds what would make the steering light at speed.
Keep doing the good work chief im sure it will get solved.
The main problem with it that calculating that does require quite heavy engineering work on the steeringrack itself. and even small changes might have widely different results all together. i do remember the 1970s sportscars in RF1 having less FFB on the 917LH long tail than on the short tail 917K and this would mostly be cause of the reduced downforce of the car. earlier 917 even produced lift at high speeds what would make the steering light at speed.
Keep doing the good work chief im sure it will get solved.
ChiefWiggum
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ChiefWiggum
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bears
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I have to say I like the long tail version ffb best, also has the grip level been altered or am I imagining it? The matra felt much more like a historic car with less grip than the v91 Alfa I drove… I feel like the mod is heading in the right direction, the matras are a great addition thanks chief!new Update on Steam, please can you compare the FFB from the Matra short with the Matra long tail
Nicola59
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Yes, Bears
You are right. Grip tyre has been reduced at 95% of the previous grip of version 91. In my opinion, grip is realistic and adequate to Sportcars 70, and it’s related also to tyre dimensions. Tyre dimensions among cars are different, since Firestone and Goodyear tyres for sport cars are different from Can Am tyres, and both tyres ( sport and Can Am ) are different from Endurance tyres ( Michelin and Dunlop ).
Grip tyres of cars is anyway lower than S397 F1 1975 cars, for example.
The tgm model from which they are obtained is the same of S397 F1 1975.
And speed of SportCar 70 was not necessarily lower than that of F1 of that era.
I found graphs in which it’s shown difference in laptime percentage of prototypes with F1 cars of the same year. And, for example, 1971 sport P cars were 102% higher in laptime, but 1972, 1973, or 1975 Sportcars had same speed percentage in laptime of F1 cars of same years.
And Can Am cars, like McLaren or Porsche 1972 -73 turbo, were undoubtelly much more fast than F1 cars in terms of speed.
Before complaining of something it’s better to know real cars data. Please, remember that those cars were running on “old” tracks…..not modern tracks allowing high performances on which the majority of people ( included me….) are often testing these cars.
And, by the way, I don’t think cars are realistic when they are undriveable because they seem to be like “ on ice” when You take a corner at 30-40 mile….like happens with some “ official” vintage formula or sport car…..but this just my opinion and I don’t pretend to be right.
Last consideration on FFB….everything may be improved. This is a feature that may ( and will ..) be improved. But, beside the fact that FFB feeling is matter of taste, try to drive , for example, Houston or EVe F1 and see how they are respect to cars in Chief’s mod.
Thank You
You are right. Grip tyre has been reduced at 95% of the previous grip of version 91. In my opinion, grip is realistic and adequate to Sportcars 70, and it’s related also to tyre dimensions. Tyre dimensions among cars are different, since Firestone and Goodyear tyres for sport cars are different from Can Am tyres, and both tyres ( sport and Can Am ) are different from Endurance tyres ( Michelin and Dunlop ).
Grip tyres of cars is anyway lower than S397 F1 1975 cars, for example.
The tgm model from which they are obtained is the same of S397 F1 1975.
And speed of SportCar 70 was not necessarily lower than that of F1 of that era.
I found graphs in which it’s shown difference in laptime percentage of prototypes with F1 cars of the same year. And, for example, 1971 sport P cars were 102% higher in laptime, but 1972, 1973, or 1975 Sportcars had same speed percentage in laptime of F1 cars of same years.
And Can Am cars, like McLaren or Porsche 1972 -73 turbo, were undoubtelly much more fast than F1 cars in terms of speed.
Before complaining of something it’s better to know real cars data. Please, remember that those cars were running on “old” tracks…..not modern tracks allowing high performances on which the majority of people ( included me….) are often testing these cars.
And, by the way, I don’t think cars are realistic when they are undriveable because they seem to be like “ on ice” when You take a corner at 30-40 mile….like happens with some “ official” vintage formula or sport car…..but this just my opinion and I don’t pretend to be right.
Last consideration on FFB….everything may be improved. This is a feature that may ( and will ..) be improved. But, beside the fact that FFB feeling is matter of taste, try to drive , for example, Houston or EVe F1 and see how they are respect to cars in Chief’s mod.
Thank You