[WIP] Spec Miata

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by PlickBadger, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. PlickBadger

    PlickBadger Registered

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    AI Noted - totally agree it's mod related. I'll try to figure it out before next release
     
  2. Emery

    Emery Registered

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  3. Andy Bonar

    Andy Bonar Registered

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    Tried the mod last night. Admittedly only for maybe an hour.
    First impressions a bit disappointed.
    I owned one of these cars for about 7 years until recently and took it on a couple of track days.
    The mod just doesn't have the same feel at all.
    The back end doesn't feel as controllable. ...there's no sense of where that limit is to pushing the back out.....Once it's gone it's gone.
    Seems very underpowered too.

    Maybe it's in the setup but struggling to get it at the moment.

    Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
     
  4. PlickBadger

    PlickBadger Registered

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    I drive one these cars at the track on a regular basis (see first couple of posts). The horsepower specs are almost exact. The gearing is exact. The back end IS gone when it's gone. Did you own a spec miata or a regular one, and was yours naturally aspirated?

    And if you don't like it... oh well, sorry. Can't please everyone :)

     
  5. Black Dice

    Black Dice Registered

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    Think you need to spend more time with it man. I dont agree about the rear end at all. It is very contollable and easy to save. I think it may be more the lack of translation from reality to simulation for you. The lack of real forces letting you feel the rear end slipping may be why. Unless you are in a full blown g force sim you are relying on other things to key in the loss of grip as well as the feeling of power. Just my opinion of course but that is what it sounds like.
     
  6. Sido Weijer

    Sido Weijer Registered

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    Plickbadger, have you read my post about the speedsensitive steering? I'm using a 270 degree wheel and steeringlock of 10 degrees, and when I'm driving slow the car turns VERY sharp compared to when I'm in 2nd gear or faster. Would be great if you could manage to fix it as the steering is awkward in the slow turns now.
    This was the post:
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/20168-Spec-Miata?p=283828&viewfull=1#post283828
     
  7. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Drive the default setup a little differently than you'd drive a street car. Keep the gas down most of the time and lift slightly if you need to rotate in the middle of the turn... large lifts will pull the rug out from under you.

    If you want to have more confidence, then change rear toe-in to +0.1 or +0.2. Alternatively, if you increase front stiffness to plant the rear, then also use a little negative toe (toe-out) on the front wheels or you'll have an understeering pig.
     
  8. PlickBadger

    PlickBadger Registered

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    Yep, I read your post. I have no way or recreating or testing your specific obscure scenario (270 degree wheel?). Hence, I have no way of fixing it. I think your expectations of support for a free mod might be a bit unrealistic.

     
  9. Hermmie

    Hermmie Registered

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    Haven't had any issues with the steering yet, or pronounced lack of grip at the rear. The default setup is more tailhappy and its a pretty short wheelbase car with narrow track and relatively slim tires, so i think it handles really like i would expect it to do.
     
  10. Sido Weijer

    Sido Weijer Registered

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    Thanks for your response. No unrealistic expectations here, sorry if I came across that way, it was just something I ran into. As I have no knowledge of modding at all I was hoping it was just something you had missed due to having a wheel that turns 900 degrees (and thus always using a high steeringlock) and it could be an easy fix. Guess it's not ;)

    There are probably more people here with wheels that turn ± 270 degrees instead of 900 and I didn't see anyone else mention the problem, so apparantly I'm the only one that has this issue. Perhaps I should just reinstall the mod.

    Edit: Reinstalled the mod, still the same problem :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2014
  11. Barf Factor

    Barf Factor Registered

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    Thanks PlickBadger, I love this car!
     
  12. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Good work and I like it as far as, therefore I want to share my impression with you.

    In the standard the vehicle suffers from the rf2 syndrome, while the front seems to weighs a ton, the tail under certain conditions nothing. The feeling is like a spiked front.

    The other point is the torque or power curve of the engine, seems a bit odd to me. The vehicle reaches cumbersome the rev/limit in the third gear, while the 4 gear it almost does not and starts from 6.500 U/min to torments itself, and has even difficulties to reach max on downhill, not to mention slight gradient/uphill where it almost dies.

    Accelerating from the middle speed range is a jigsaw, barely perceptible torque, very little body work in general and even in the first gear under full load, the vehicle hardly slips at the start.

    Summarized, it feels like it use a too low flywheel mass and generates too little torque on the wheels. Either the engine/transmission or the tires are not optimal in my opinion.

    Also, the vehicle becomes a grip monster with the least amount of camber. Without much change something else, apart from the camber and stabilizers to ( front 22mm rear 18mm ) the vehicle is very adhesive.

    I hope it helps somehow. I look forward to more updates and wish to continue success, thank you. :)
     
  13. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    And lots of weight xfer which is probably the biggest reason for the lift oversteer. I love cars like this. So much fun.
     
  14. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    It's a very low powered RWD car with lots of grip and an LSD. IRL they don't do massive burnouts off the line either. There's probably a lot of people that drive low powered FWD cars with open diffs and think that all cars will spin the wheels of the line as easily as their daily driver does.
     
  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Spec Miata rules mean the typical 1.6 liter engine makes 110 hp at the rear wheels and the car weighs about 2200 lbs (remove interior, add rollcage). A really, really well-built 1.8 liter motor might make 125 peak hp at the cost of carrying more weight for the bigger motor so that the two motors can compete with each other.

    So, yes, it will feel like it doesn't have a lot of power because... are you ready?... it doesn't have a lot of power and it is carrying a fair amount of weight!
     
  16. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Rear weight (or lack of it)...

    Back in '94-'97, when I had a stock new Miata, I got caught in a snowstorm without chains/studs/snowtires and lost traction, so I edged off the road the best I could. Lots of other drivers suffering the same and doing the same. When I got out of the car, the rear was sticking out into the lane a bit more than I felt comfortable with.

    So, more as a test than a serious effort, I gave it a slight shove sideways and it moved about a foot! There really isn't much weight holding down the rear.
     
  17. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    It all sounds very logical people and I believe and also trust the correctness of data but no one really knows what makes the physic engine from that, it can always go wrong.

    I know the real street model, 've driven a few of them, although not all had the same configuration, but unfortunately I can not remember in detail.

    So I wanted to express only my perception as such and I find it still difficult to agree with you guys and stand by my opinion, because I generally do not agree with some as rfactor 2 treats it, as for example weight and body stiffness.

    However, I'm sure a lot will change in the future and when I said that before regarding many other things nobody believed me but it has always changed to my satisfaction and expectations so far. It is only a matter of time until it will be again the case (rfactor2 is neither complete nor perfect). Not necessarily based on the mod as I said, i like it apart from those little things, so i'm looking forward to more updates. ;)

    edit:
    once again strayed from the main I wanted to say. :rolleyes: Please test lowest camber and try the various output stages (transmission) under different conditions you'll see there are inconsistencies (each stage should reach max rpm, at least at the straight), also the extreme grip by reduction of camber is relatively unnatural and the tire feels as flat, although the pressure is about ~ 2 bar. Too much friction for my feel and the lightweight rear part with standard setup is virtually eliminated by the low camber as well ( this could be normal but then the standard setup isn't recommendable and the grip factor in general not optimal imho ), and these are just a few random clicks during a 30 min session, not even tested in detail. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2014
  18. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    I haven't tried adjusting the cambers from Plickbadger's default, but given how lowering camber in most ISI mods provides an improvement, I can believe that it would provide greater grip in this mod, too. ISI is still working on the tire contact patch model and I suspect their next release will include an update there that might make default cambers more desireable.

    Which track are you using for your testing? Would be good if we're all comparing apples. :)
     
  19. PlickBadger

    PlickBadger Registered

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    v .93 is almost ready - I'm just doing the final testing

    Here's the list of fixes
    1. eyepoint fixed
    2. AI speed improved
    3. oil & water temps fixed to realistic
    4. brake temps should be more realistic
    5. possible tire wear fix
    6. possible sound fixes

    Here's the sample of the AI speed improvement
    LochDrummond Short - 10 lap race, default time, 100% strength
    v92 AI speed
    View attachment 13179

    v93 AI
    View attachment 13180
     
  20. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    @Emery

    That is the reason why I'm careful with my judgment, in respect to mods, it can have various causes, up I'm in the wrong, alltough in this case unlikely. :)

    Test environment Newerburg GP, natural processing real road and sunny. Also important to mention, the extreme grip with low camber already exists in the first turn with green track.
     
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