[REL] Released | Formula Pro

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    Reminder that RF2's sound engine is in absolutely miles behind the competition, and regardless of the talent of the sound engineer, it will likely always sound lo-fi in comparison to modern titles. They've done a decent job on the Formula Pro, and the BMW DTM in particular sounds very good for RF2. But the sound engine is just so damn dated now that it's really standing out as one of the weak points - particularly in spectator mode.

     
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  2. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    the FFB and physics are miles behind rF2 for the competition, but for the sound, this car is not bad at all I think in rF2. But yes, there is a big room for improvement, and I prefer AI fix before.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  3. doddynco

    doddynco Registered

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    I agree that this Formula Pro car sounds quite good for RF2. But due to the sound engine, even the best sounding cars in RF2 generally don't touch even average sounding cars in AC1. It's mainly a matter of how the enviroment and speed affect the sound samples - RF2's processing is very poor in this regard. The worrying thing is that I don't think S397 have ever mentioned sound, I mean they have litterally never made an utterance about it, like it doesn't exist in their world. If anyone can prove me wrong please do as I'd love to hear something about it. I just about ready for another sim to take the lead on the physics front so I can stop following this bleeding carcase of a game.
     
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  4. Mydriaz

    Mydriaz Registered

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    Hello,
    l've noticed that AI tire wear is well visible while I can't see any on my own car.
    AI cars :
    20210701190901_1.jpg

    My car :
    20210701190857_1.jpg
     
  5. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    RD: (question from @Martin Fiala) - Are there any plans to improve the sound engine that seems to be basically limited to a very simple on/off reverb and to stereo only sound?

    MO: Yes. The current plan is to look at this starting probably Q4 of 2019. I anticipate this work to go well into 2020 though, so you will have to be patient!


    https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rfactor-2-the-big-interview-part-3.170418/

    Apparently devs are working on it for more than year and a half so you better expect brutal best sounding sim on a market by a mile.
    Can't wait, I am so excited!
     
  6. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    It won't happen soon, the god of the physics, ISI, has stopped, and left rF2 as the last standard, so you won't have better soon, don't hold your breath for Kunos, Codemasters, or Reiza to beat the physics of rF2...
    https://imagespaceinc.com
    you can contact them to make rFactor 3, if you are millionar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ahaha, do you suffer from OCD just by chance? We'll see what AC2 can bring to the table. You also need to aknowledge that physics is not just a "one" thing... It's about the depth of the systems that are being simualted and if they are being simulated. There might come or exist a sim that actually doesn't quite nail the generality of "physics" and feel a bit "fake" but compensate by the sheer ammount of things it does and still delievers a very competent feeling all around that might be more desirable than a sim that seems to excell in "rawness" but lacks stuff and is deficient to a non aceptable degree on some things (say for example the way some of S397 cars can be made to handle to achieve insane laptimes).
     
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  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, why no mention of that ever since? At least that I've seen. Sounds more like PR talk to me and even if not... 2 years and counting...
     
  9. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I have more hope for Forza 8 than AC2....But I don't hold my breath, I know that rF2 will be again the best.
    https://simracing-unlimited.com/en/news/forza-motorsport-8-with-new-tire-model-and-tire-compounds
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  10. Oskart

    Oskart Registered

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    Hi all, I have an issue with new formula pro racing in Spa, all official content. I have frozen screen playing offline when I am close to the start/finish line, I've tested the car in othe track and it works perfectly, other car this track and perfect too, no idea about how to solve. My specs i7 10700 - gtx 1080 - Rift cv1
     
  11. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, until I play Forza 8 I can't say anything. You also don't know what AC2 will bring to the table, so stop with saying RF2 will just be the best lol... It's getting old, and newer doesn't mean better, but new code with better computer capabilities that modern computers offer and will offer, it can mean that many of the simulated systems can be more advanced and in depth then those at play in RF2...
     
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  12. AlexHeuskat

    AlexHeuskat Registered

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    I don't know what AC 2 will bring and I know what rF2 brings, the god of the simracing, first made by ISI, the god of the physics. And nobody can challenge it for the moment and for a long time.

    Unless I See... I Will Not Believe: St. Thomas
     
  13. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    The pit test is a good idea, yes, thanks - however, there are several aspects of what I experienced (I’ll give it another go tonight and report back) that don’t stack up - particularly the apparent lack of variation of amplitude and/or frequency with speed. At 15mph, you should still be able to hold on to the wheel and the frequency of vibration should be appropriately low.
     
  14. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    TL;DR I agree, there might as well never be anything that will push physics further than rF2 did. Although I agree with @Nieubermesch too, simulation also includes things that are being simulated, not only depth of simulation for each of those. However, I'd argue that simulation of things such as tires and aerodynamics and engines are just simply so huge, most of other things are incomparable, they are so much less important, although still very important especially for specific cars.

    @AlexHeuskat ^Nobody can. And nobody likely will. Perhaps could, but most likely won't even attempt. The reason for that is demand of people who are simracers. And that demand is low bar, short sighted and simplistic when it comes to physics. Average guy who is simracing, or even advanced... can't tell the superiority of rF2 physics so certainly. There are guys, like mclarenf1papa who is very knowledgeable, experienced and skilled physics guy, or Niels Heusinkveld, who can't see how rF2 is greatest or has never expressed any support of that way. I am not entirely sure how is that, they have their fair arguments, such as for example them not liking physical tire models as much as "magic" ones. In my opinion this is such a push back, physical tire simulation is definitely the way. Perhaps it is less convenient to work with data, but I guess that depends, as this new tire modeling logic for this BMW and Formula Pro seems to have worked rather well so far and it was promoted that it comes with help of tire manufacturer, I thought it was Hankook, but Formula Pro said it is Goodyear.

    Other huge advantage, at least in my personal view, is that this rF2 physical tire modeling is a lot more intuitive if you have a somewhat developed vision of how real tire should work outside just some mathematical output data, which IMO also is great way to base physics especially if you can combine it with sufficient amount of data... I think it is not as complicated, at least till you start to pursue very high level of accuracy. Speaking of accuracy, these "magic" simulations aren't capable of that in the first place, because they are too artificial in the first place. Physical modeling such as in rF2 with its brush model allows a possibility of so much more natural tire action. Many bristles that represent tire contact patch in highly realistic manner replicates state of rubber, which ones are static, which ones are sliding, loads and temperatures distribution and so on and on... Others just can't do it, they approximate too much, they just can't have contact patch working that well in all situations.

    Actually IMO other non-physical tire simulation using simulations still can achieve way more than they do usually, but the last limiting factor is demand of people. Automobilista (first one) is great, but it always was small comparing to AC, and as simulation AMS is better. ACC in early access in beginning was impressive after hotfix, but it was too different to AC, and it was bashed down backwards. This alone is enough of the proof that demand of people for physics is low enough that non-physical and rather simplistic tire simulation can do the job for most. There are more physics picky people there as well, but they go along with quality of design, content and popularity which has always propels itself, more popularity leads to more popularity, especially if it comes so naturally. Many people doesn't care, they just want go fast and compete. Also many people don't want their fun to be hindered by their lack of skill, but that leaks into everywhere, including rF2.

    rF2 could possibly remain in the level of its own forever as fundamental simulation available in consumer market. But it might as well hardly use most of its capabilities, for example lets say if people just don't ask for it, and don't care for it. In that case what's the point of this simulation power ? In such case I could see developer of most sims not ever even attempting increasing any depth of simulations further than it is profitable, focusing simply on what they can use to mention by marketing the product and also providing satisfaction to as much simracers as possible, which unfortunately sometimes means not letting them taste the reality that they are not in fact good enough to go that fast with some particular vehicle in some particular conditions - thats the real reality.

    Thats why I wish so much for this BMW, I'd hate this step forward to be pushed back, I have seen it happening before. These things happen. And then how could you possibly expect any sort of evolution is simulation games market ? More sales maybe, nothing more.
     
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  15. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Solved - sort of!

    It's not flatspotted tyres - that effect is working as expected. It appears to be related to some aspect of the DD profile I'm using with my SC2 Pro wheelbase. With my normal profile, the Formula Pro can suddenly generate these high-frequency, high-amplitude forces (possibly triggered by contact with an object - even if invulnerability is set to on). One odd aspect (other than the lack of significant speed-related variation in frequency/amplitude) is that by weaving gently from side to side, the forces dissipate and I can get back up to a racing speed. Resetting FFB in game has no effect, pitting for new tyres has no effect.

    Switching to an alternative profile I've used in the past seems to sidestep the issue. I'll have to work through each individual setting to find the main culprit...
     
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  16. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Solved - it's the 'ultra low latency mode setting'. I had been running it at 13% which seems to work ok with the historics I normally drive. Dropping it down to 5% or so eliminates this effect on my SC2 Pro.
     
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  17. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    Then how do you explain small userbase of AMS 2 (easier to drive) vs large userbase of iRacing (harder to drive) ?
     
  18. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Not a very accurate comparison. The allure of iR is the massive online environment. AMS2 is more of a traditional sim. I'm not sure what sim I would use to compare numbers with AMS2....perhaps ACC?
     
  19. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    I would say original AC is good enough for AMS2, even IF AMS 2 physics engine is better the cars in AC feel much more realistic IMO. if i have to choose just 2 sims , it will be AC and RF2. (ACC cars feels too much on rails).
     
  20. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Apologies for off-topic. I guess thats just sad reality of internet these days. Facebooook just influenced everything to become chat rooms. I am a bit out of fashion with my long posts, can't do better.

    First of all iRacing marketing is unbeatable on the level of its own, it has planted it's roots into simracing grounds incredibly strongly. I honestly don't get it, they offer rather questionable payment system, that probably for many of its users is not really worth it. Although they are serious in physics, they have some future tires that are faster than real tires, and also they are harder and less pleasant to drive than real tires, everyone dislikes them and still continues on "leveling up" in iRacing. I honestly don't even think their online racing system is that good, it doesn't work that great, I think even SRS of AC offers better functioning system that makes people race more responsibly, even AC minorating system by Minolin resulted in better online racing quality due to direct tie between competitive racing and clean racing, which in iR are basically completely separate... But it has the prestige and high quality standard and impressive consistent development plus famous people racing in there steadily.

    P.S. I hate what they did to Lotus 49, it is unforgivable, it is crazy. I bet they never cared about it, just gotta try to pick those GPL people.

    AMS2 is absolutely nothing close to iR, except that it is trying to do same thing. Reiza is like awesome athlete that for some strange reason just never became super celebrated, while iR studio is also awesome athlete but everybody knows it and keeps on talking about nonstop in every location by every person. AMS2 should be compared to AMS or AC. I don't have AMS2, but I loved AMS. But like many I was mainly in AC. It just how it was, although driving itself I always thought was better in AMS. AC is actually a monster in popularity, it totally collects tons of people who otherwise would be playing AMS or AMS2, also AC plus ACC totally takes away tons of people that would be otherwise spending their car simulation evenings in rF2. AC just did typically italian super smart things that benefited them a lot, perhaps even too much, as AC is also rather big rival to ACC still, although it links so many people to ACC eventually. AC also had incredibly great marketing, just simply very neat, effective and with some impressive achievements which they managed to highlight well. Must take a note that AMS2 is already doing a lot better than AMS did, although many core simracers I hear talking that it does not quite live up to it in terms of physics. Must admit that having a game on more modern and more graphically appealing engine plus rapidly adding plenty of TRULY exciting and licensed content also is a big deal as steamcharts show AMS2 already having much greater numbers than AMS did. Another comment I have looking at steamcharts numbers is that AMS players number didn't change much, many of them probably didn't find AMS2 fitting their needs, and I would suppose that AMS2 could possibly be slowly collecting people who used to go to Project Cars. Still most of people are absorbed by AC, and I wonder how much longer it is going to last, since titles that are actually being developed needs more support and deserves it. AMS2 hardly relates to iR IMO, except for the fact that they also simulates cars racing. Actually no sim yet can stand face to face with iRacing, it has just went that far and built such a name, it could only decline if it went too corporate, and they still have cards in their sleeves to offer better payment system and adjusting physics to peoples likes in case userbase starts moving away or new generation of crybabies comes, they are in a wonderful spot.

    For a second it looked like rF2 got into wonderful spot with official virtual Lemans event last year, what an event, but something did not quite click in. Things just seem hardly happen in time for rF2, if hardly ever. If COVID stay at home madness would strike now, rF2 still hasn't reached the state when it is so sorted out and polished that it could keep much people to stay who decides to give it a go.
     
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